TST 2012 Forward Tees Experiment - Results Thread

[sabergo]

Course Name : Koenigstein Golf Club (Germany)

Course Website : http://www.golf-koenigstein.de

Course Style : Parkland, Open, and Rolling Hills (lots of Rough and OB)

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : Yellow: 6490/71.9/132

Regular Tee Average Score : 95

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 5742/69.5/124 (converted to Mens via USGA Chart)

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 90

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 87

Aggressive Round Score: N/A

Conservative Round Score: 86

Did you find that the aggressive or conservative round was more enjoyable? I did not have time to play the aggressive round, but it would have been my typical score, I believe.  I had no blow-up holes (defined as triple or higher), and had a great time.  There was an older couple behind me, and the man got a real kick out of me playing forward. The lady seemed irritated by it for some reason.

Did you discover a hidden strength or weakness in your game? Both -- I hit 5 wood and below -- usually a hybrid 3 off the tee for par 4s and 5s which actually left me only 20-40 yards ahead of my driver from the mens tee (when hit well).  I'll be trying this from the standard tees since I had only two missed Fairways. Weakness:  Thought I was a decent putter, but found that putting for birdie made it harder to focus...  I really need to work on putts from 8-20 feet since I three putted three times.

On which area of your game did the shorter tees put pressure? Putting (see above) and Course Management.  GIR increased significantly, but # of putts did as well.  Course Management:  I had to actually think through what club to use and why since the course seemed so different.

Did you have more fun than normal? Will you occasionally play shorter tees for fun? I did enjoy the round more than normal -- it was a new experience (and kept feeling like I was doing something naughty and getting away with it).  I'll certainly play it forward again, especially as it gets colder.

What'd you learn? That I can break 90 on this course (Never done it before this round), the Red Tees are not as short as the whites on the course where I played with my brother, and the slope 19 higher -- still a tough course.  The mental side of golf must not be underrated.  I also learned that setting a target score in my GPS helped me focus -- and applied some pressure -- that I played through.  Oh, and playing from the fairway really helps on the score card.

Did you shoot your predicted score(s), and if not, why not? If so, was it for the reasons you suspected? I beat my prediction (goal) by one stroke, but not necessarily because of length -- it was mostly my mental approach or frame of mind.  Thanks for posting the experiment.  I'll try the aggressive style when I get my driver back.

Steve

[iacas]

Get your scores posted by the end of the week folks!

Thank you.

[Valleygolfer]

I forgot my 7 iron distance: 167

[mvmac]

Quote:

Course Name: Bernardo Heights Country Club

Course Website: http://www.bhcc.net/Club/Scripts/Home/home.asp

Course Style: Parkland

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 6,748 yards/ 73 / 133

Regular Tee Average Score: 74

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 5601 / 68.8 / 124

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round): 68

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round): 70

Aggressive Round Score: 70

Conservative Round Score: 74

Average 7-Iron Distance: 160 yards

Notes: I found the conservative round more enjoyable because there wasn't the pressure off the tee that the aggressive round presented.  It was also fun to hit different clubs off some tees to manage my way around the course.  I had short irons/wedges into most holes, except the par 5's and gave myself plenty of scoring opportunities.  I noticed that I had to try and narrow my focus when teeing off in my conservative round.  I    A weakness that I noticed was that the distance control with some of the shots I had from around 115-130 yards.  That 3/4 wedge to 3/4 nine irons distances.  Bernardo Heights has some smaller greens and it's been hot here in San Diego so the greens have not been very receptive.  Even short irons shots can take big first bounces, making things unpredictable.  Five yards here or there could mean the difference between a birdie chance or pitching it out of high rough.  In the aggressive round I shot a lower score and hit the driver particularly well all day.  So I had a lot of shots into the greens with my Edel wedges and I feel I do well controlling the trajectory and distance.  With the added bounce it's fun to hit those "lazy" 80-100 yards shots.

I think I'll play the forward tees again when I test out hybrid clubs or wedges for reviews but probably not anything other than that.  It's not something I'm going to play with the weekend group at the club.  I would say I had more fun than normal but it's not something I would consistently have more fun at.  I learned that even though you may have much shorter distances into some holes, you still gotta score.  As everyone knows, the best players, whether it's on tour or the local amateur champ, makes those 3-5 foot putts and is solid with their wedges.  I shot higher than my predicted scores, A-68 C-72, and was correct that my aggressive round was lower.  There aren't many difficult hazards around the greens at Bernardo Heights, just sticky rough, so it wasn't like I was going to lose any balls or get any crazy bounces.  I think my conservative round was just hurt from being in between clubs too often.

[poser]

Course Name Keith HIlls

Course Website : http://www.keithhillscc.com/

Course Style : Traditonal tree lined fairways with a fair amount of OB

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6900 / 72 / 130

Regular Tee Average Score : 75

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6056 / 69 / 120

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : n/a

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 68

Aggressive Round Score: 70

Did you find that the aggressive or conservative round was more enjoyable? Only played the one round and hit hybrid off most of the tees except par5s.  I enjoyed it especially the shorter par 3s

Did you discover a hidden strength or weakness in your game? No

On which area of your game did the shorter tees put pressure? I think it put pressure more on the tee having to decide what club to hit.

Did you have more fun than normal? Will you occasionally play shorter tees for fun? I enjoyed the round but, I will still play the normal back tees with our normal groups.  If the chance ever comes up I'm sure I'll play the forwards again.

What'd you learn? Playing from a shorter yardage made the whole course alot easier.  Didn't have to hit many drivers and still had wedges into the greens.  Also had alot shorter putts for birdies than normal

Did you shoot your predicted score(s), and if not, why not? If so, was it for the reasons you suspected? I didn't beat my predicted but, it all came down to putting. I wasn't hitting the ball super great that day and from the back I would have had a hard time staying in the 70s.  Playing the forward tees allowed me to hit it pretty bad and still break par.

[namkrats]

Course Name:  Bayview Golf and Country Club

Course Website: http://www.bayviewclub.com

Course Style: Traditional Wooded

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 6299/70.4/123

Regular Tee Average Score: 94

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 5481/66.2/114

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round): 88

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round): 85

Aggressive Round Score: 89

Conservative Round Score: 87

Average 7-Iron Distance: 150-155

Notes:

a. Did you find that the aggressive or conservative round was more enjoyable? I found my conservative round more enjoyable as during my aggressive round I was struggling with the driver.

b. Did you discover a hidden strength or weakness in your game? My driving has always been the weakest part of my game, I always have had a solid short and putting game and I found these were the aspects of my game that kept me along for the ride during my aggressive round and kept my good round going during my conservative round

c. On which area of your game did the shorter tees put pressure? My wedge game

d. Did you have more fun than normal? Will you occasionally play shorter tees for fun? Yeah. I wouldn't be opposed to it.

e. What'd you learn? I'm an average wedge player

[darkhunter139]

Originally Posted by darkhunter139

Course Name: Kimberton Golf Club

Course Website: http://www.kimbertongolfclub.com/course/

Course Style: Open

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 6016/68.3/118

Regular Tee Average Score: 95

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 4960 (really short I know but the gold tee's are only 300 yards shorter so I don't even think that would be worth it)

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round): 92

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round): 90

I should be able to get a round done Saturday or Sunday!

Aggressive Round Score: 89

Average 7 iron: 145

I was only able to play one round unfortunately but here are my results from that round.

Did you find that the aggressive or conservative round was more enjoyable? Was only able to play my aggressive round.

Did you discover a hidden strength or weakness in your game? I had not used my driver in a long time before this and found that I was actually better at hitting it than I thought.

On which area of your game did the shorter tees put pressure? My short iron and full swing wedges. With my driver from the short tees I found myself less than 100 yards from the greens frequently.

Did you have more fun than normal? Will you occasionally play shorter tees for fun? I did have a fun time and would try playing the shorter tees again.  I still want to try my conservative soon if I get the chance (hopefully this weekend! I finally have time to play golf again after a rough month)

What'd you learn? I learned that I really need to work on learning how to hit my driver well.  If I can leave myself less than 150 yards more often my GIR's are going to go up a lot, right now I am usually sitting at 150-170 yards when I tee off with my 3 wood where I am a lot less accurate.

Did you shoot your predicted score(s), and if not, why not? If so, was it for the reasons you suspected? I did, I thought I was going to hit my driver a lot worse than I did and take a few penalties. Even when I did hit my driver badly I was still close enough that I could easily recover.

Here is a screen shot of my score card from the round.

[phillyk]

Course Name :  Shuksan GC

Course Website : www.shuksangolf.com

Course Style : Lots of water/streams, lush grass

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6742yds/72.9/137

Regular Tee Average Score : 75

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 5271/65.2/108

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 64

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 66

Aggressive Round: 70

Conservative Round: 71

Average 7-iron: 183

1) I enjoyed both rounds, but the aggressive was more fun by 18, because in the conservative one, I started to make really bad shots that shouldn't have happened.  I started well in both rounds, -2 cons. and -1 aggr. after 9 and the back just didn't hold out for me, when I in fact usually play much better on the back than the front.

2) My notion of a weak short game of 10-60 yards from the green was strengthened in this experiment.  I could not score in that distance.  Every time I couldn't get up and down from there, it felt like making a bogey.  Most of my irons and 3-wood, I hit very well.  My driver was on and off most of the time.

3) The shorter tees put a million times more pressure on the long game, at least for being aggressive.  Holes 1-6, 8-11, 13, 15, 17, and 18 all have water or OB right next to the green.  And having many shots to reach the green from the front tees put a lot of pressure to hit it straight.  So as you might imagine, I had a lot of bogeys as well as birdies.

4) I wouldn't say I had more fun than normal, but it wasn't boring or too frustrating.  I might play the front tees again for the hell of it.  Maybe do so with a couple buddies and see what happens.

5) I learned that I need to work on that 10-60 yd out distance. When I'm within that distance, I better be able to put the next shot darn close to the pin to make it up and down.  That is where i can save a lot of strokes.  I also learned I like playing 6800yd courses and longer a lot more, because I don't debate with myself so much as to what club to use off the tee.  I feel far less restricted on the long courses, because I know I have the distance to play well, and all it will depend on is consistency, versus a short course where more distance factors come into play that I don't like messing with.

6) I did not shoot the scores I wanted to.  My shorter game fell apart, especially towards the end of the round.  My stats: conservative round: 12F, 13GIR, 31 putts, 34front, 37back; aggressive round: 5F, 11R 4 of which were greens in under regulation, 30 putts, 35 both 9's.  In the conservative round that 12F mark kills me, because it says I had all the shots I wanted into the green, but i couldn't put the next shot close enough to give myself good birdie chances.

[iacas]

Paging mazzamouth and Spyder - could we get accurate course ratings and slopes for you for the forward tees? I think you used the women's ratings. Please use the men's ratings.

Also paging melchior, sabergo, and poser - could we get your average 7-iron distance?

Thank you. We're going to have the stats in a week or so. Should be illuminating... :)

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

Course Name:  Restigouche Golf and Country Club

Course Style: Traditional Wooded

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 6870/72.3/142

Regular Tee Average Score: 70-74

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 5360/66.2/112

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round): 72

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round): 69

I know that my conservative score will be better, since when I 'go for it', im going to be driving greens and losing accuracy on a short course. When I play my regular game, I score better. Im a big strategist in everything I do, and I play better golf when I think my way around the course.

I have played the forward tees before, and I shot really low. Laser wedge shots put me in scoring position more often than im used to.

Aggressive Round Score:  70

Conservative Round Score: 72

Average 7-Iron Distance: 170

Expected scores: Conservative: 75

Aggressive 77

Notes:

5119/66.7/110

Use the "Notes" field to tell us what you discovered. Try to answer the following questions in the Notes:

a. Did you find that the aggressive or conservative round was more enjoyable? Conservative, even though I was dead on throughout my Agressive round. Just one of those really good days.

b. Did you discover a hidden strength or weakness in your game? Lots of trouble with the 5wood off the tee.

c. On which area of your game did the shorter tees put pressure?Long game, I couldn't just bomb it and know what my yardage would be. Very different than my usual long game. I had to be more careful.

d. Did you have more fun than normal? Will you occasionally play shorter tees for fun? More fun because it felt like a different course. Yes, I will and have done it more often.

e. What'd you learn? That knowing the course in and out is bad for my game, because when I end up in a situation I don't normally see, im a bit out of my element.

f. Did you shoot your predicted score(s), and if not, why not? If so, was it for the reasons you suspected? Shot better in both. My short game made up for my problems with the long game.

[Club Rat]

TST 2012 Forward Tees Experiment -

This experiment was particularly interesting pertaining to comments, both positive and negative.

Results indicated are only from individuals who seemed interested and participated.

For those who did participate, thank you.

Participants , number whom indicated to participate (54)

Entered results – (21)

Scores , better than "Projections" versus "their Average Score"

Broken down into “True and False” categories

Aggressive Round Score (True = 11), (False = 7)

Versus Average Score (True = 16), (False = 3)

Conservative Round Score (True = 11), (False = 6)

Versus Average Score (True = 16), (False = 0)

Average 7-Iron Distance 161 yds (Average from entries)

Categories converted into "Yes and No" answers

1. Did you find that the aggressive or conservative round was more enjoyable?

Conservative (8-yes) Aggressive (8-no)

2. Did you discover a hidden strength or weakness in your game?

Conservative (15-yes) Aggressive (3-no)

3. On which area of your game did the shorter tees put pressure?

Conservative (15-yes) Aggressive (0-no)

4. Did you have more fun than normal?

Conservative (15-yes) Aggressive (2-no)

5. Did you learn something from the experiment?

Conservative (8-yes) Aggressive (4-no)

6. Did you shoot your predicted score(s)?

Conservative (20-yes) Aggressive (0-no)

7. Did you shoot better than your average scores?

Conservative (19-yes) Aggressive (2-no)

My thoughts,

Everyone seemed to enjoy the experiment and experience of "course management" of the rounds.

Everyone found criteria to improve and concentrate on certain aspects of their game.

Overall, it was a well executed idea by a Golf Professional.

More participation could have been accomplished due to the time frame the experiment was conducted.

(late season) may not have provided participants ample time to complete.

Club Rat

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by iacas

Paging mazzamouth and Spyder - could we get accurate course ratings and slopes for you for the forward tees? I think you used the women's ratings. Please use the men's ratings.

Also paging melchior, sabergo, and poser - could we get your average 7-iron distance?

Thank you. We're going to have the stats in a week or so. Should be illuminating... :)

Are the stats below what you were referring to or are they in another thread?

Originally Posted by Club Rat

TST 2012 Forward Tees Experiment -

This experiment was particularly interesting pertaining to comments, both positive and negative.

Results indicated are only from individuals who seemed interested and participated.

For those who did participate, thank you.

Participants, number whom indicated to participate (54)

Entered results – (21)

Scores, better than "Projections" versus "their Average Score"

Broken down into “True and False” categories

Aggressive Round Score (True = 11), (False = 7)

Versus Average Score (True = 16), (False = 3)

Conservative Round Score (True = 11), (False = 6)

Versus Average Score (True = 16), (False = 0)

Average 7-Iron Distance 161 yds (Average from entries)

Categories converted into "Yes and No" answers

Did you find that the aggressive or conservative round was more enjoyable?

Conservative (8-yes) Aggressive (8-no)

Did you discover a hidden strength or weakness in your game?

Conservative (15-yes) Aggressive (3-no)

On which area of your game did the shorter tees put pressure?

Conservative (15-yes) Aggressive (0-no)

Did you have more fun than normal?

Conservative (15-yes) Aggressive (2-no)

Did you learn something from the experiment?

Conservative (8-yes) Aggressive (4-no)

Did you shoot your predicted score(s)?

Conservative (20-yes) Aggressive (0-no)

Did you shoot better than your average scores?

Conservative (19-yes) Aggressive (2-no)

My thoughts,

Everyone seemed to enjoy the experiment and experience of "course management" of the rounds.

Everyone found criteria to improve and concentrate on certain aspects of their game.

Overall, it was a well executed idea by a Golf Professional.

More participation could have been accomplished due to the time frame the experiment was conducted.

(late season) may not have provided participants ample time to complete.

Club Rat

[Club Rat]

MEfree, the stats I provided are taken from replies to the thread.

All I did was tally the responses into various categories and provide my interpretation of results.

I sent Eric a message asking when results would be posted.

He replied he was waiting on the results from "mdl" who is the statistician.

I hope they will be posted and see the analysis they perceive.

Club Rat

[iacas]

Yep, we're waiting on mdl. :P