Are you spending 70% of your practice time on your short game like Michael Breed implies you should?

[RFKFREAK]

I think it is possible that Breed is speaking to a fairly large golfing population that empties buckets of balls on the range as if the balls are ticking time bombs  that need to be distanced in a hurry before they explode. My guess is he would agree that the more mindful golfers would benefit from a much (much, much) higher % of long game.

Maybe so, but presuming he has insight to how PGA players practice, it's intellectually dishonest for him to state that PGA players dedicate 70% of their practice time to their short game should he know better.

This is a little OT and better asked in the Game golf thread but a quick question.  Does Game Golf tell you your median drive (where half your drives are that distance or longer and half are that distance or shorter?)  Since the median reduces the effect of outliers (your 295 and your 129, for example) it gives you a better idea of your driving distance for course management purposes.  You certainly never play a hole anticipating a drive of 129, or 295, with your game.  But anticipating a drive in the 218 range might be just as misleading.   I think the median would give you a better picture of your drive expectation for planning purposes.  I think it will be the closest to your "typical" reasonably solid drive, which is what I think is what you should be thinking about as you plan how you will play the hole.  I kind of wish the PGA stats would give us both averages and medians.

I just calculated it the median and of the 65 drives I've had this year, the median is 213.  The average from those 65 drives is 210.  Here's how GG illustrates the data from my drives:

[turtleback]

I just calculated it the median and of the 65 drives I've had this year, the median is 213.  The average from those 65 drives is 210.  Here's how GG illustrates the data from my drives:

I love that graphic.  It gives me a much better feel than any single number measure of central tendency like mean or median.

[DrvFrShow]

Seriously, Breed's statement is a hyperbole

Maybe so, but presuming he has insight to how PGA players practice, it's intellectually dishonest for him to state that PGA players dedicate 70% of their practice time to their short game should he know better.

I just calculated it the median and of the 65 drives I've had this year, the median is 213.  The average from those 65 drives is 210.  Here's how GG illustrates the data from my drives:

I would toss that long one, the four longer ones, then the short ones near the first bubble and below. By eyeballing this should give you about 1 std deviation and a median of about 225 for a typical drive.

[GolfLug]

Originally Posted by RFKFREAK

Maybe so, but presuming he has insight to how PGA players practice, it's intellectually dishonest for him to state that PGA players dedicate 70% of their practice time to their short game should he know better.

[mvmac]

Mike.  You watched the pros immediately prior to a tournament for only 2 or 3 days and yet you can draw such a strong conclusion?  When these pros retreat behind the gated walls of Orlando and practice golf in solitude, what do we know?  Darn little.

LOL give me a little credit Joe. Of course I didn't reach this conclusion based on watching the pros for two days, this is about the 30th tour event I've been to in my life and the pros spend a majority of their time practicing full swing mechanics. I also know a few tour players and instructors that teach on tour, they don't spend anywhere near 70% of their time on the short game "behind the gates". I even practiced with a PGA Tour winner growing up and played with/in the same events as Ryan Moore, Spencer Levin, Hunter, Ricky Barnes, Clay Ogden, Michael Putnam, Zack Miller in college.

You've been a member of the site for a while, do you actually read anything that's posted?

90% of your practice should be on the short game. Period. Everyone can hit a ball 125 yards or better. It's what you do to get it in the hole from there. End of discussion.

Not to be rude but....How's that working out for you?

Better players hit more greens, miss it closer to the green, hit less shots OB than higher handicappers. A scratch golfer isn't that much better around the greens than an 18 handicapper. The scratch is A LOT better with the long game, that's where he separates himself.

I assume that pros know how important their long games are and spend close to 66% of total practice time on their long games, but is there possible value to flipping the ratio just before a round, assuming your warmup has demonstrated a fairly locked in full swing?

Maybe if the player has a glaring weakness but spending 66-70% on short shots would be pretty rare.

[dkolo]

Seriously, Breed's statement is a hyperbole

I would toss that long one, the four longer ones, then the short ones near the first bubble and below. By eyeballing this should give you about 1 std deviation and a median of about 225 for a typical drive.

Hey, hey, hey, if he tosses his long one, that was the same hole I got my long one, and I'm not letting go of my long one!

[mdl]

That is not the case for everybody.  For a lot of people, they are happy where they are and just want to have fun.  For those people, if that's whats fun for them, then it's not wrong to practice your short game 70% of the time.  Hell, it's not wrong to practice your short game 100% of the time.

But if your goal is to become as good as you can be at golf and score as low as possible ... then it is wrong.

I think you can go overboard with this attitude.  If you absolutely love shots from 40 yards and in, and get a meditative experience practicing short game shots, maybe practicing short game 50+% of your practice time ups your overall practice time and keeps you wanting to practice.

Of course, I agree with the point that all else equal, a 70/30 short game/long game practice ratio is non-optimal.  But in real life all else isn't always equal...

[bubble]

If I count shots on range under 130 yards I certainly do practice 70% or more of the time on short game.

[mvmac]

If I count shots on range under 130 yards I certainly do practice 70% or more of the time on short game.

From 70-130 yards you're still mostly using full swing mechanics. I tend to think of short game as 30-40 yards and in.

[RFKFREAK]

I love that graphic.  It gives me a much better feel than any single number measure of central tendency like mean or median.

One of the many things that are cool about GG.

Seriously, Breed's statement is a hyperbole

I would toss that long one, the four longer ones, then the short ones near the first bubble and below. By eyeballing this should give you about 1 std deviation and a median of about 225 for a typical drive.

Yeah, I would say I average about 225 with potential to hit it 300 (and also the potential to hit it 120 ).

Hey, hey, hey, if he tosses his long one, that was the same hole I got my long one, and I'm not letting go of my long one!

No doubt! @dkolo put the challenge up there and I had to step up.  I'm sure being challenged is the real reason I don't consistently hit it 295.

[joekelly]

Sorry about that Mike. I conflated two threads, one about your time at Harding Park, and this one.  So I drew an erroneous conclusion about how you made your decision that MBreed's comment was 'beyond ridiculous'.  So apologies regarding your total life/golf experiences.

Just got back from watching the pros in San Francisco and I can easily attest that they don't spend anywhere near 70% of their practice time on the short game. For Breed to say that is beyond ridiculous.

But, i will also say that on this thread there is  no real agreement on :  What exactly is the short game?   Who precisely are the pros in question?  Does MBreed have reliable info?  Is he selling something, like a DVD on the short game?  Becoz he's a  well known TV golf teacher and commentator does he have more correct information than other teachers?  Is his golf experience comparable to yours?  Why does he think the average HI 20 golfer SHOULD emulate the pros?

If i had 6 hours a day to practice and spent 70%, 4.2 hours, on driver/3w/5i/hydrid etc, and did that 5 days a week...exhaustion/fatigue/burn-out.  But if i practiced those same hours on chipping/shortpitching/putting...joy/improvement/lowerscores.   Yes, i want improvement and am working towards that end but can't get it through DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) as induced by 20 hours a week on the mats.  If i were 14 years old i might see life/golf differently.

Yeah, can read but am sometimes a bit casual about it all.  Like reading a mid-level novel.  I appreciate your ideas and frankly, wish i could go 20 hours a week on the mats.  Best regards.

[BuckeyeNut]

I've mentioned this many times...... I have not stepped foot onto a practice range since 1995.  LOL

I don't recommend this, but I just "Play". If I have time for golf, I put a peg in the ground and play the course. I've enjoyed unlimited golf and range privies since January 1996..............when confronted with this choice, I choose 'PLAY'.

[RFKFREAK]

Sorry about that Mike. I conflated two threads, one about your time at Harding Park, and this one.  So I drew an erroneous conclusion about how you made your decision that MBreed's comment was 'beyond ridiculous'.  So apologies regarding your total life/golf experiences.

But, i will also say that on this thread there is  no real agreement on :  What exactly is the short game?   Who precisely are the pros in question?  Does MBreed have reliable info?  Is he selling something, like a DVD on the short game?  Becoz he's a  well known TV golf teacher and commentator does he have more correct information than other teachers?  Is his golf experience comparable to yours?  Why does he think the average HI 20 golfer SHOULD emulate the pros?

If i had 6 hours a day to practice and spent 70%, 4.2 hours, on driver/3w/5i/hydrid etc, and did that 5 days a week...exhaustion/fatigue/burn-out.  But if i practiced those same hours on chipping/shortpitching/putting...joy/improvement/lowerscores.   Yes, i want improvement and am working towards that end but can't get it through DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) as induced by 20 hours a week on the mats.  If i were 14 years old i might see life/golf differently.

Yeah, can read but am sometimes a bit casual about it all.  Like reading a mid-level novel.  I appreciate your ideas and frankly, wish i could go 20 hours a week on the mats.  Best regards.

Well, in his short game episode where this all came from, all he did was bunkers, chipping, and pitching; no full swing mechanics nor any putting.

The pros in question are PGA Tour pros.

Reliable info - that's why I said, should he know better, he's being intellectually dishonest with that statement.

He made no mention of any DVD or anything as such on the episode and I didn't see any commercials about a DVD on the short game by him while his program was on (although, I generally don't pay close attention to commercials).

[Typhoon92]

Wow, amazing thread guys...just read through the whole thing, also saw the Golf Fix the other nite. What struck me as I read through was the amount of people that have high handicaps and don't spend much time on their short games....sort of what Breed is saying. You don't need to be a tour pro but doubling your short game time will improve your scores. I do 70% short game and I'm a +3. I might hit a small bucket of 30 balls once or twice a week but on my way home from work I stop by the course and chip/putt for an hour everyday. Weekend kites I go down for a couple hours until the mosquitos get me and I might mix in 10-20 full shots to just to break up the routine.

[dfreuter415]

I've mentioned this many times...... I have not stepped foot onto a practice range since 1995.  LOL

I don't recommend this, but I just "Play".  If I have time for golf, I put a peg in the ground and play the course. I've enjoyed unlimited golf and range privies since January 1996..............when confronted with this choice, I choose 'PLAY'.

It is truly amazing to just play since 1995, and have a 4.2 HI.  When you were learning the game, did you have a practice regime that allowed you to maintain your game?

My daughter, Kelly, began golfing at the age of 11, I got her group lesson at a local community college, just to see if she liked the game. At age 13, Kelly began caddying, so I got her lesson with the assistant pro at the club. Also, when she played with me, Kelly had to play the men's tees. At the age of 14 she earned a varsity letter, and was the number 3 golfer on the team. By the time she was a junior she was the #1 golfer on the team. Then as a senior, Kelly won her section title, and had the opportunity to to play collegiate golf.

Here is where the story changes. Kelly didn't feel that she had time to golf and accomplish her academic and social goals in college, so, following high school, she became a recreational golfer. (She did get her MBA in 5 years and has held a wide range of financial positions since she graduated in 2008.)  For the last 4 years Kelly has been working in New York City and has few opportunities to golf. But, when Kelly now plays, about 2 times a year, she still maintains her picturesque golf swing, hits the ball 240 yards off the tee, and still is able to shoot in the 80's.

BuckeyeNut , it amazes me that you are able to maintain your index without having a practice plan, just as it amazes me that Kelly can still play relatively good golf without playing at all.

I love this game.

[mvmac]

But, i will also say that on this thread there is  no real agreement on :  What exactly is the short game?   Who precisely are the pros in question?  Does MBreed have reliable info?  Is he selling something, like a DVD on the short game?  Becoz he's a  well known TV golf teacher and commentator does he have more correct information than other teachers?  Is his golf experience comparable to yours?  Why does he think the average HI 20 golfer SHOULD emulate the pros?

There probably is some disagreement on what the short game is. He might call the short game 120 yards and in. To me it's based on mechanics, so basically outside of 60-70 yards resembles more of a full swing. The technique for pitching/chipping around the greens is much different than hitting a full shot.

And even if Breed is talking about the short game being 120 yards and in, they still aren't practicing that 70% of the time.

You don't need to be a tour pro but doubling your short game time will improve your scores. I do 70% short game and I'm a +3. I might hit a small bucket of 30 balls once or twice a week but on my way home from work I stop by the course and chip/putt for an hour everyday. Weekend kites I go down for a couple hours until the mosquitos get me and I might mix in 10-20 full shots to just to break up the routine.

You may spend a lot of time on short game but I bet you're a +3 because of your long game. Two reasons why you don't need to spend that much time on short game, it's an easier skill to become proficient at compared to the full swing and you don't get enough bang for your buck. You gain more/separate yourself more by improving your long game.

[Aguirre]

You gain more/separate yourself more by improving your long game.

Right.  I thought this common knowledge, but maybe it isn't.

I'm guessing some of this might be in the Lowest Score Wins book.

[mvmac]

Right.  I thought this common knowledge, but maybe it isn't.

Unfortunately it's not.

I'm guessing some of this might be in the Lowest Score Wins book.

Yep, LSW is basically all about Separation Value, what skills deserve your time/attention and which ones don't, both on the range and on the course.