Penalty for Giving Advice After a Round is Complete

My son plays High School Golf.  The format is stroke play, 9 holes.  Seven players from each team, and the team score is the sum of the 5 lowest scores.  The round is played in foursomes, 2 players from each team.  After he had completed his round, and signed his scorecard, my son was watching the following group play the 9th hole.  After his teammate hit his approach onto the green, my son remarked to no one in particular that the his teammate's upcoming putt was "lightning fast".  The opposing coach heard this comment, and insisted that my son be assessed a 2-stroke penalty.  However, since my son had already signed his scorecard, the opposing coach now insisted that he be DQ'd for signing an incorrect scorecard.  Our team's coach does not know the rules, and did not put up a fight.  My son was then disqualified, over his fervent objections.

I tried to find an example similar to this in the USGA decisions, but could not.  This seems like a patently unfair application of the rule since the 2-stroke penalty (if there even should have been a penalty) happened after the scorecard was signed.

Any idea how this should have been ruled?

If his statement was made within the hearing of that teammate, then the opposing coach had a legitimate gripe.

If the statement was just made as a general observation, but not so the teammate still on the course could hear it, then it can't possibly be advice as it is defined in the rules.  If I've finished my round in a tournament and I'm sitting on the balcony watching the play of the later players finishing up on 18, and I make such a comment to a friend sitting at the table with me, it can't be construed as advice because we are both done with the round, and we are not within hearing distance of the players who are still playing.

I wasn't there, but I'm pretty sure it was a general observation. That was an absolute BS move by the opposing coach. And his coach allowed himself to be bullied.

The Round had been completed by the player.

8-1 . Advice

During a stipulated round , a player must not:

a. give advice to anyone in the competition playing on the course other than his partner ,

8-1/18

Player Who Has Not Yet Played Seeks Advice from Player Who Has Finished Round

Q. May a player about to start his round seek advice as to clubs used at various holes from a player who has just finished?

A. Yes. Rule 8-1 applies only during the play of a round.

30-3a/2

Absent Partner Gives Advice Before Joining Match

Q. A and B are to play C and D in a four-ball match. A is absent when the match begins. A arrives just after B, C and D have teed off at the 3rd hole. According to Decision 30-3a/1 , A is prohibited from joining the match until the 4th hole. Is it permissible for A to give B advice during the play of the 3rd hole?

A. Yes.

While I agree that the coach shit the bed by not knowing the rules in this instance, I don't think that's entirely fair. It's not like he had the time and space to "research" right then and there. He should have put up a better fight and possibly insisted on a third party (hopefully a knowledgeable one) ruling, but my experience, at least in Canada, is that the vast majority of these extracurricular coaches are woefully underpayed and under-resourced or even just volunteer fathers that step into the breech to make up for the Government's total lack of "give a shit" for what's important for kids growing up. I would tend to cut these guys some slack in most cases. My kids (6 and 8) both play soccer and every one of the coaches is just some guy who stepped up, none of them are paid and none of them are trained. Some are great coaches, some are just doing what they can to make sure the kids have the opportunity to play. The other coach probably needs a fat lip to help him come back to planet earth. The corporate *****s we call politicians need more than a fat lip. Burn that shit down...

Surely there's another folder on this site where you can rant about your personal view of politics. You've contributed nothing to this discussion.

Coach's are not "Rules Official's" they are only capable of observing and commenting about rules.

The decision would normally be judged by the Pro Staff or tournament Official's if they are present for an event.

Club Rat

At least back in the day, normal high school matches didn't have a separate tournament committee or rules officials. The coaches comprised both. I suspect it's much the same today.

It doesn't matter. His son cannot be penalized under Rule 8-1 because his comments did not occur during his stipulated round.

Just curious, did your son's teammate slide his putt past the hole, apparently because he didn't hear the comment or didn't heed it?  And even if he played the putt correctly, did the teammate putt first?  Or did anyone from his foursome putt ahead of him in a similar line that would have informed him of the speed of the greens?

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Seems like an extremely harsh penalty for an offhand comment.  I guess your son can just chalk it up as a lesson learned about rule 8-1.  Also about the lack of sportmanship some coaches (and players) will display in order to get an edge.

You need to read Posts #4 and #11.   It was more than a harsh penalty;  it was an incorrect penalty.

You should report the opposing coach to his administrator, or at least to what ever sports commission regulates the sport. I am not a rules geek by any stretch, but your son's "stipulated round" was over, and at that point he was just a spectator.

Agree 100% with this. I would take it up directly with the California Interscholastic Federation .

Perhaps the place for @socalsharky to start is to contact the "CIF Rules Interpreter" for golf found on this page . At minimum that contact information should be forwarded to the coach so he can appeal to someone knowledgeable if there is a dispute in the future.

This is an excellent strategy to employ against self-declared 'rules experts' (members of the site excepted, of course). Worst thing that can happen is someone learns something (either you or them).

I know for a fact that I would never take any high school coach's word for anything much about the game of golf unless I knew his credentials.  One of the coaches I knew when I worked as a starter didn't even play golf.  He took the job to make a little extra money because none of the other teachers wanted it.  All he really did was handle the team's logistics - the kids were mostly on their own as far as playing was concerned.  Pretty sad situation for the golf team at that school.