Do pro players talk smack?

I've played team sports, but have never played competitive golf (not even a local tournament or fundraiser).  My question is, is it appropriate to talk trash, overtly or subtlety, to your playing partner?  The only thing I was thinking on Sunday was, if I were Justin Rose I would be trying everything I could to pull Spieth off his game.  Competitive banter really, but it goes against golf etiquette.  Do playing partners talk trash in competition, why not?

I would say 90% of the time there is no smack talk. There might be a few jabs here or there if a bad shot is hit. I never come across anything resembling what might be said in other sports like Football or Basketball.

I can't speak in terms of what is said inside the ropes. I never heard anything picked up on the telecast that resembles smack talk during a tournament. I am sure there is more during practice rounds, especially if you get a group of golfers who are buddies. I would like to follow Phil around on a practice round when he has money on the line on a few bets.

A lot depends on the relationship of the players and the circumstances.  I do not think pros would talk smack during a tournament.  But I have heard stories about Jack and Arnie giving each other the needle (what we used to call smack talk).  Heck we saw in in the par 3 when Arnie came out and needled Crenshaw about his first tee shot.  And I would bet there was plenty of it in that practice match with Phil, Ricky, Dustin and Brandt.

We followed Anthony Kim and Rory McIlroy the entire final round of the 2010 Wachovia at Quail Hollow.  It was incredible.  They were going back and forth like you wouldn't believe.  We started calling them Sidney and Billy Ho (White Men Can't Jump).  Most of the banter was rated "R" at best.

They seemed to be feeding off each other and were really enjoying it.

Maybe "smack/trash talk" would be the wrong way to phrase it.  I think I'm thinking more like taunting, goading, or intimidating.  I used to love running up and down the field annoying the other player to the point where they lost their cool.  I know golf is polite, but if I am out to win I would do anything I can.  I wonder if there are rules about it, or if it's just etiquette.. unwritten rules like watching a home run too long, or bumping in NASCAR.

In Harvey Penick's Little Red Book he told a story about a pro/gambler who would ask his playing partner midway through the round, "Do you breathe in or out on your backswing?" to mess them up.

In answer to your question I would say it's likely inappropriate at a serious tournament (if the players in your group are in contention especially). However at most scrambles I take every chance I get to goad my partners (even though they're playing with me) since it's all good fun at that point. I also do this in the money games I play with other members of the golf team, as do they, but it's understood that you don't do anything too underhanded or directly interfere with another's swing.

Golf is so between the ears - who has time or the mental facility to engage in constant trash talk?   Trash talk, simply does not fit the game of golf, IMO.  Not that it is impossible to do, because I hear people doing it all the time on public courses, but I am also asking myself internally: 'how do these guys play a round of golf running their mouths so much?'  I just don't see it happening in high stakes competition golf.  You've got so much flowing through your head, just to keep your own game on the rails at 200mph, I just don't see the time or mental bandwidth available to be trying to derail the other guys train.

The other side, of course, is the fact that golf is supposed to be gentil' game raised to the level of sport.  Notice what I said, 'game raised to the level of sport' - is the way many traditional thinkers pursue golf and in that regard, you might ask yourself, would opposing players across a chess board, start howling back and forth at each other?  Probably, not.  You don't see it in professional tennis to much of a degree at all, either.  Nor, do I witness it in professional volleyball much at all.

I think when you break it down, trash talk typically makes sense in contact sports - or sports where contact is inevitable.  Baseball, is not a contact sport by design.  However, the collision at home plate, or the inevitable collision when a base is being stolen and the throw from the catcher is inbound, turns baseball into a full contact sport in hurry.  So, sometimes, we see trash talk talking place in professional baseball.  Whereas, with Basketball and Football, trash talk is virtually a deadlock guarantee.

Football is not a "contact sport," it is a Collision Sport - Gladiator Blood Sport (I played football for 12 years).  Basketball, while not originally designed to be a contact sport has, since the ABA and its assimilation into the NBA, become a definite 100% guaranteed contact sport, without fail.  Plenty of trash talk takes place on the football field, I can assure you of that.  Much of it you cannot see on television because of the camera angles and the helmets blocking the lips of the players at certain angles.  So, it is somewhat ironic, that we ultimate witness trash talk in full bloom on the hardwood floors of professional basketball.

I did not intentionally leave out professional Rugby and professional Soccer, where trash talk is bountiful as well.  In fact, over the years, trash talk in Professional Soccer, I would say has clearly eclipsed the NBA and rivals that of NFL.

But, clearly, the King of all trash talking sports has got to be American Professional Football in the NFL.  Trash talk talks place ever single down, during plays, before plays, after plays, during timeouts, during commercial breaks, between quarters and even some trash talk at half-time as both teems head back up the tunnel to the locker rooms.

However, I once heard two guys get into some real trash talk during a Ping Pong match once!   Who said Ping Pong can't have its moments of furry:

There is nothing in the Rules of Golf which explicitly addresses the subject.  I'd say it's very much an unwritten rule though.  If you did it in serious competitive play, I'm sure there would be repercussions.  I don't know anything about the rules/regulations the professional tours impose, but I'm sure they have some stipulations about player conduct - conduct detrimental to the game, or some such thing.  I'd imagine that if you tried anything akin to the smack talk/taunting that goes on in football or other sports, you'd probably be disqualified and might end up with a knuckle sandwich in the parking lot after the round too...maybe by more than one fellow competitor if your reputation had already spread.

There is what's often referred to as "gamesmanship", which is much more subtle - things like readily conceding short putts (in match play) early in the round, then making them putt them out later in the round.  Striding out ahead of them down the fairway after a shot.  "Accidentally" stepping on their line on the putting green.  Subtle little things to get into their head and throw their game off, but not outright taunting or intimidating.  (And just for the record, I don't agree with doing those types of things either, no matter how subtle they are.)

We trash talk all the time when playing with friends, where the stakes are nothing more than buying drinks after the round or a buck a hole or whatever - but that's among friends, we're all good with it and we're not earning our livelihood from it.  It's just a friendly competition and the outcome means nothing, so we're pretty relentless toward each other most of the time.  In a tournament setting, even if paired with a friend, all that junk would be put on the shelf - doubly so if my competitor was a stranger/somebody I didn't know well.

I'm not a pro, but would really hate it when someone would talk trash to me during a serious round of golf. From what I see at television the pro's at the highest level who are in contention give credits to each other when hitting a good one.

Spieth for instance gave Rose a thumbs up when Rose almost made birdie from 90 yards (tap in par).

Thanks for your thoughts.  I enjoyed reading your responses :-)

I have been playing in school tournaments lately and I was paired with a kid committed to a very very big D1 and another kid who was a Junior who is probably going to be playing low D1 golf and the lower end player was winning by a couple of strokes going into the last 6 holes and he started smack talking. Kid committed to big time school birdied 4 of the last 6 holes and beat the other by a lot but it was very interesting.

Never heard about smack talking in the pros though.

"Smack Talk" There's a new one on me.

Because our wee group has been playing a long time together there's plenty of it but ,in general, it's more positive 'smack talk" than negative.We have become used to the "No pressure" smacker.

"Nice shot""Good Ball"'That's a cracker",are the positive smackers.

Whilst following the pros around at the tournaments,I haven't heard any 'Smack Talk"

Then problem with "smack talking" on a golf course is that you look pretty silly when the person you're trying to put off his game is better than you.

Apart from that, Justin Rose is a nice guy and wouldn't lower himself to that level.

Friendly banter and joking is one thing, but the line is drawn well before someone looks like a jerk.

I agree with pretty much what everyone said. I'm sure there is some good-natured ribbing, but there is no Michael Jordan-level trash talk. It's too easy to lose your own focus and screw up when you do that kind of stuff.

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Originally Posted by Mac62

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Originally Posted by Subaroozz

Maybe "smack/trash talk" would be the wrong way to phrase it.  I think I'm thinking more like taunting, goading, or intimidating.  I used to love running up and down the field annoying the other player to the point where they lost their cool.  I know golf is polite, but if I am out to win I would do anything I can.  I wonder if there are rules about it, or if it's just etiquette.. unwritten rules like watching a home run too long, or bumping in NASCAR.

There is nothing in the Rules of Golf which explicitly addresses the subject. I'd say it's very much an unwritten rule though.  If you did it in serious competitive play, I'm sure there would be repercussions.  I don't know anything about the rules/regulations the professional tours impose, but I'm sure they have some stipulations about player conduct - conduct detrimental to the game, or some such thing.  I'd imagine that if you tried anything akin to the smack talk/taunting that goes on in football or other sports, you'd probably be disqualified and might end up with a knuckle sandwich in the parking lot after the round too...maybe by more than one fellow competitor if your reputation had already spread.

There is what's often referred to as "gamesmanship", which is much more subtle - things like readily conceding short putts (in match play) early in the round, then making them putt them out later in the round.  Striding out ahead of them down the fairway after a shot.  "Accidentally" stepping on their line on the putting green.  Subtle little things to get into their head and throw their game off, but not outright taunting or intimidating.  (And just for the record, I don't agree with doing those types of things either, no matter how subtle they are.)

We trash talk all the time when playing with friends, where the stakes are nothing more than buying drinks after the round or a buck a hole or whatever - but that's among friends, we're all good with it and we're not earning our livelihood from it.  It's just a friendly competition and the outcome means nothing, so we're pretty relentless toward each other most of the time.  In a tournament setting, even if paired with a friend, all that junk would be put on the shelf - doubly so if my competitor was a stranger/somebody I didn't know well.

There absolutely is something in the rules that addresses this:

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!etiquette

If you're playing a fun round with your buddies, do what you want.  If you're playing with strangers and try "taunting, goading, or intimidating", you're a jerk (to put it nicely for the forum).  If you're competing in an organized event, you're a jerk and you'll probably be disqualified.

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Originally Posted by krupa

There absolutely is something in the rules that addresses this:

Which of those clauses does talking smack violate?  These seem to be aimed at not allowing distracting the opponent during their shot.