Virtual Certainty

Yesterday I hit a six iron shot on the 8th hole. It landed in the bunker on the fly. Another person in my league foursome saw it land. Neither of us saw it roll out or bounce out. It was from a high shot, not a line drive. My thought was, "Oh, well, I'm in the bunker. I hit 8 of them two weeks ago."

I got to the bunker, and there was no ball. There was no ball in the vicinity of the bunker. Nowhere. Not near the trees. There wasn't even any ball mark in the bunker. Yet two of us were virtually certain the ball was in there. However, there were holes dug in there by animals, and it was possible it may have gone in one of those, but we couldn't find it anywhere.

I said I get to drop a ball and play because there is virtual certainty, and the bunker is a hazard.

The people who didn't see it said, "No, go back and re-tee." There was a foursome of guys on the tee waiting. And we're in a league and can't let them play through.

I dropped a ball in the bunker and was DQ'd by the committee. No biggie since I was out of the competition for lousy play anyway, but I think the ruling was incorrect. So does the pro at the course.

Given there was no ball mark in the bunker I'd say you didn't meet the qualifications for "virtual certainty"

You will search a long time in the Rules and not find any mention of virtual certainty that a ball is lost in a bunker.  If a ball is not found in a water hazard, in an abnormal ground condition or an obstruction and you have knowledge or virtual certainty that it is in it, there are dropping options in addition to stroke and distance.  If your ball is known or virtually certain to be in a bunker but you can't find it, it is lost.  You should have played under stroke and distance.

But did you know that you can search in a bunker by poking around and shifting  the sand, by hand, foot, club, rake or whatever?

If I am not mistaken you cant apply this certainty to a bunker, only a water hazard or ground under repair. the holes could have captured your ball I understand but certainty may not apply since it's possible your ball pluged unvisible in the sand (happened ot me twice altough a short wedge finiched clearly in the sand I never found the ball). the holes could have applied thought if around them it's obvious rou could not lose the balle elsewhere (say in a FW area or a very light rough).

therefore your ball was lost and you played form the wrong aera with a two stroke penalty. unfortunatly you played from the wrong aera with a high advantage of distance, so you should be DSQ for playing from the next tee without correcting your mistake.

Yeah, virtually certain only applies to water hazards, right?

Your situation would be comparable to hitting one dead center of the fairway where there are some leaves and not finding it.  You don't get to just drop a ball in the fairway, and it sucks, but thems just the breaks.

But walking back I suffer the sore feet penalty in addition to hitting the ball.

So you take the two stroke penalty for scoring purposes, but DQ for competition purposes. Okay. That works since no one is trekking back 175 yds to the tee with a foursome pressing with no option to let them play through. I consider my $5 competition fee a donation this year anyway.

Also playing during the week with a casual round we take the 2 stroke penalty and drop for a lost ball since there is no competition in the interest of pace of play. I don't know anyone who makes the walk or drive except in a tournament.

Agreed.  I'm not making that walk (or ride) unless its a tournament and I have to.  Casual round; drop, take my ESC, and move on. ;)

Oh, one last thing: If it was soft sand, I think you could have just taken the rake and tried to "dig up" your ball on the off chance it was buried.  Then identify it, and put it back under the sand and play on without penalty (other than the penalty of the bad break you just got having to play a buried ball :P)

That's correct - as I mentioned in post #3.    Rule 12-1a permits you to touch and move sand anywhere on the course if you believe your ball is buried.  If you find it, you must recreate its lie i.e. bury it again except that you are allowed to leave the top of it uncovered.

You are not alone.  I've seen others who rather DQ or WD than walking back in similar situation.  Our course has a lot of rough areas that one can only find balls by feeling/stepping it over with  feet.  Ball gets completely buried in rough.   Everyone know where one's ball entered a rough, don't feel that the player need to hit provision, only to end up unable to find the ball.   On a casual round, I would not walk back and will take distance + penalty.   In tournaments, I drove back to re-tee always.  Call me old school but I can't quit what I started, tournament included.

What's the big deal about hitting a provisional when a ball may be lost or may be out of bounds?  If you know (or don't know) the golf course, just hit the provisional, that's what the Rule is for.

Because your ball may not be out of bounds. Some of the rough areas you can just hit into and you know your ball is in there. You find it most of the time, but you can't be hitting provisionals all the time, otherwise you're picking those up if you find your other ball. Suppose you hit the provisional on the other side of the fairway and there are people behind you waiting? There's casual play and medal play. Let's face reality.

Picking up a provisional takes a lot less time than trudging back to the tee.  Anytime there's a question of whether you'll be able to find your ball or whether it's out-of-bounds, you should be hitting a provisional.

You don't end up hitting a provision b/c you are certain you can find it.   Don't tell me you have never done that.  Also, hitting lots of provisions on busy weekend day when all the tee times are fully booked is not being looked kindly.

Sure, every great once in a while, you might be sure you can find it and not be able to, but that should be the rare exception.

I have never experienced anyone looking down on hitting a provisional.  In fact, people are happy it's being done.  But hey, if your course is different, feel free to just take a drop.  As you did not play the hole under the Rules of Golf, the score on the hole you turn in for handicap purposes should be par + whatever handicap strokes you would have received. In tournament play, you'll simply have to accept being DQ'd every time because you didn't want to hit a provisional or go back to the tee.

You make the decision whether you want to play by the rules or not.  If you do, then you will play more provisional balls than the average player.  It takes a few seconds to play one.  It takes a few seconds to pick it up if you find the original ball.  Your choice.

That's the first time I've ever heard a pace of play argument for not hitting a provisional! :-\

That is because they are assuming you just drop one where you think your ball ended up instead of driving or walking back to the tee box to hit another one.

Basically the pace of play argument wins if you break the rules.

The odds of you playing a course with this level of rough is slim to none. I've played country clubs before and they don't have rough gets the ball lost. Now if you see your ball going to the heathery death, then yea you should hit a provisional. If you end up not hitting it even near your other ball then deal with it. If you don't then don't post your round for official USGA handicap because you didn't play an official round by the rules of golf.

Remember she lives in the Pacific Northwest.  Lots of rain....

Maybe a few days without mowing... rough can now be quite long.

Even at my home course, they can not mow for awhile (typically in the fall when play is slower), and I have a hard time finding balls.