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Vinsk

Will Jordan Spieth Come Back?

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5 minutes ago, iacas said:

What did Jordan try to change?

He just started hitting the ball more poorly than his other-worldly form of 2015-2017.

I had read a while back that he was trying to drive it further.  That will mean a swing change.  He didn't need to do that.

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On 4/21/2019 at 6:37 PM, Vinsk said:

As much as I hate to turn a discussion away from Tiger, I thought I’d get your opinions on JS. I mean, WTF has happened to him, He’s approaching his pal Smylie Kauffman’s status. 

Any of you low ballers/tournament players have such a drought?  Seems like any time JS says he’s ‘progressing’ he has another blow up. What’s wrong with him? Your thoughts?

JS looks like a young man struggling with demons; always talking about progress, but lacks conviction in his words, this I detect.  I believe he needs a shrink to get a grip on his thoughts, mindset and way ahead.  All the talent in the World, just needs to believe way down that he can get it done.  IMHO.

 

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13 minutes ago, Herkimer said:

I had read a while back that he was trying to drive it further.  That will mean a swing change.  He didn't need to do that.

Discussed - and dismissed - earlier in the topic. He didn't try to do that.

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

Discussed - and dismissed - earlier in the topic. He didn't try to do that.

At any rate, what I said still stands about not messing around with your swing if you're doing really well.  I figure that by the time Spieth started winning all those tournaments, he had already worked on a million things over many years and got his swing to the point where it was natural and perfect for him, even with his chicken wing.  But, if you're not doing well, then sure, you'd better work on your swing and try to get better in a hurry.  

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5 minutes ago, Herkimer said:

I figure that by the time Spieth started winning all those tournaments, he had already worked on a million things over many years and got his swing to the point where it was natural and perfect for him, even with his chicken wing. 

Tiger Woods changes his swing like four times. Most Pro's have more than one or more swing thought in their head when they play. This thing about having a natural swing that is just repeatable and thoughtless is not true. 

I always thought Spieth might regress. I felt like a lot of his results was due to his hot putter. He struggles putting inside of 10-Ft and is really good at mid-range putting. Don't get me wrong, his ball striking was very good, but he wasn't an elite ball striker on the PGA tour. 

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17 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Tiger Woods changes his swing like four times. Most Pro's have more than one or more swing thought in their head when they play. This thing about having a natural swing that is just repeatable and thoughtless is not true. 

I always thought Spieth might regress. I felt like a lot of his results was due to his hot putter. He struggles putting inside of 10-Ft and is really good at mid-range putting. Don't get me wrong, his ball striking was very good, but he wasn't an elite ball striker on the PGA tour. 

I don’t know the stats but it does seem like he was hot when things like holeing out and sinking 20’ putts occurred more than what odds would show. If long putts and hole outs were putting you above the rest...it’s only gonna last so long. Golf is just so damn difficult. Look at Smylie...was putting some great rounds together then just fell of the face of the earth. I think Spieth is a good kid but whatever he’s been doing needs to change. 

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1 hour ago, Ron Allison said:

, just needs to believe way down that he can get it done.  IMHO.

 

If he can dream it he can be it. Are you serious?

Next we'll be learning that the person who wins is the person that wants it more.

I would be very surprised if "self-belief" was an issue with any of these players.

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30 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

his ball striking was very good, but he wasn't an elite ball striker on the PGA tour

He was in 2014-15.  Strokes gained: off the tee was 15th, approach was 11th, around the green was 1st, and putting was 9th.  He was 2nd in total SG.  His biggest drop off has been, in fact, ball-striking.  For 2019, SG: off the tee was 176th, approach was 196th, around the green was 35th, and putting was 2nd.

Hence, it wasn't that he just had a magical putter for a year or two--he still has it.  He's lost his ball-striking, and the stats bear that fact out.

headshots_34046.png

The official PGA TOUR profile of Jordan Spieth. PGA TOUR stats, video, photos, results, and career highlights.
jordanspieth-847-tompennington-sm.jpg

Jordan Spieth's victory Sunday at the DEAN & DELUCA Invitational was his second of the PGA TOUR season. He's finished outside the top 25 just twice in 12 starts this season and ranks third in the FedExCup. Spieth is...

 

12 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t know the stats but it does seem like he was hot when things like holeing out and sinking 20’ putts occurred more than what odds would show. If long putts and hole outs were putting you above the rest...it’s only gonna last so long. Golf is just so damn difficult. Look at Smylie...was putting some great rounds together then just fell of the face of the earth. I think Spieth is a good kid but whatever he’s been doing needs to change. 

see my reply-post to @saevel25 for the stats.  Putting isn't his issue--it's his ballstriking.

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9 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t know the stats but it does seem like he was hot when things like holeing out and sinking 20’ putts occurred more than what odds would show. If long putts and hole outs were putting you above the rest...it’s only gonna last so long. Golf is just so damn difficult. Look at Smylie...was putting some great rounds together then just fell of the face of the earth. I think Spieth is a good kid but whatever he’s been doing needs to change. 

I know it is easy, because their age are close as was when they came on tour - but Kaufman has medical issues (elbow I believe), Spieth, IMO, has learned that golf is hard, and I'm going to go with comments by Greller who has been quoted that he needs to go back playing more by feel and stop being so analytical. Spieth was always a little twitchy, but it looks to me like he is even moreso - and although his Masters meltdowns are remembered, it should be noted that there were glimpses of that during his star season. Like the Open Championship at St. Andrews where he missed the playoff by one shot - and he hit a huge pull hook on 18 tee and had to play his approach from near the 1st tee. 
His short putting seems to have slipped, but maybe it is just more noticeable when he is missing them for par then when he missed them for birdie; but absolutely it is his approaches that have gotten worse. He used to drop those 15-25 foot bombs, and now he is having to play more often from over 30 feet away and the magic only goes so far.

I'd love to see him get back to being in contention, but the field gets deeper, the competition gets better and I'm starting to believe the Jordan has become a grinder, like so many on the tour; he might catch lightning in a bottle for a week but I don't see him getting back to the top 10-20 in the OWGR again.

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15 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

I would be very surprised if "self-belief" was an issue with any of these players.

Actually I'd be very surprised if self belief or self confidence is not an issue with many players in most every professional sport.  Granted flaws do work their way into even the most elite player.  But there is no denying that elite players in every sport at times just feel it.  They just know they are going to make it.  It's those times when everything slows down and you just see it happening.

John

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Hes still young, and can claw it back and be a regular winner on tour again. But any presumptions he is going to be one of the all time greats probably isnt going to happen. His generation of players dont seem like they're going anywhere anytime soon. 

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I think he might have tried to change something, because he suddenly started missing to the right with the Driver. I'm reminded of an interview I read with Sam Snead quite a few years ago. This was shortly after Curtis Strange had won 2 US Opens in a row, and then decided that he needed to "fix" his swing! Sam allowed as how he wished he could have talked to him. According to Sam "he won 2 US Opens moving off the ball, and suddenly he thinks he needs to fix that! I wish I could have talked him out of it." 

Strange "fixed" himself right off the Tour! 

Edited by Buckeyebowman

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I don't get it.  A world-beating game and they always try to "fix" something. Most times it doesn't help anything.  There's far more to it than how one swings. At that level.  

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1 hour ago, 3jacker said:

A world-beating game and they always try to "fix" something.

He legitimately did not try to make a change. This is a false narrative.

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2 hours ago, 3jacker said:

I don't get it.  A world-beating game and they always try to "fix" something. Most times it doesn't help anything.  There's far more to it than how one swings. At that level.  

I’m curious where you read/heard that? I think he started having some poor results/poor ball striking and Is just struggling to correct it yes? I don’t think he just randomly decided to change his swing but rather get out of a slump that has been challenging for him. Yes?

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On 3/2/2020 at 9:28 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

I think he might have tried to change something, because he suddenly started missing to the right with the Driver. I'm reminded of an interview I read with Sam Snead quite a few years ago. This was shortly after Curtis Strange had won 2 US Opens in a row, and then decided that he needed to "fix" his swing! Sam allowed as how he wished he could have talked to him. According to Sam "he won 2 US Opens moving off the ball, and suddenly he thinks he needs to fix that! I wish I could have talked him out of it." 

Strange "fixed" himself right off the Tour! 

This is exactly the point I was trying to make (but not as well).

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On 3/2/2020 at 9:28 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

I think he might have tried to change something, because he suddenly started missing to the right with the Driver.

IIRC, when he won his last major, The 2017 Open, his miss was right. That included a spectacular miss over a hill. His recovery shot was perfect. 

I don't think he has tried to change anything. I think his approach shots are not as close as they were those great years.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/sports/2017/07/24/jordan-spieth-13th-hole-driving-range-saving-shot-explainer-british-open-alex-thomas-lkl.cnn

 

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22 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I’m curious where you read/heard that? I think he started having some poor results/poor ball striking and Is just struggling to correct it yes? I don’t think he just randomly decided to change his swing but rather get out of a slump that has been challenging for him. Yes?

I was responding to the speculative post, I don't know that Jordan specifically tried to change anything. I was speaking more to the general idea that we've seen with some players.

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