Chipping/Pitching onto Slow Greens

[The_WetBandit]

6 year weekend warrior and deep divot maker to now everyday playing and gunning for a round under 85. Need some feedback from a group with more golf XP

 

I'm not a member to any courses or clubs, so I resort to local public courses and driving ranges. My local driving range is massive, has good prices, and even has a short game area where you can practice chipping/pitching inside 30 yards and bunker shots. I spend most of my time here, but recently... I've been trying to figure out if I need to get a lesson or if these greens are showing skewed results. 

The greens are small and are just your typical municipal, firm, slow chipping greens. If I chip from over 15 yards, the first contact can more times than not shoot the ball in unexpected directions. The roll isn't smooth, but they don't look terrible. Up close, they just seem not great. Hope this helps paint a picture in mind lol I use to work on a private course with extremely well kept bent grass greens that I miss terribly!!

My question: I have trouble getting my chips to check up on me. Do slower greens allow for more check, or does the faster greens allow for the opportunity for more check? 

The clubs I use are Vokey 60, 54 degrees. Both in almost perfect condition and great groove life.  

[Patch]

Ball contact with the club face, and the AoA has alot to do with how much back spin is put on the ball.

I would think slower greens would help with the ball checking up. Slower greens are coarser than fast green.

I had a problem with pitches /chips not checking up, rolling past the hole. Other times the ball would check up short. My club face / ball impact and/AoA were not consistent. 

These days I play the ball a little more forward in my stance, and don't worry much about back spin. I don't worry about taking much of a divot either. I get a more consistent roll after the carry. Club selection is also important with this shot. 

Another thing I really like doing is hitting flop/lob shots when ever I can. After the higher carry, the ball falls on a steep angle,  bounces once or twice and stops near the the hole. There is very little roll out. Softer greens are better for this shots, I can still use it smetimes on firmer greens. 

All of these shots take a certain amount of practice to be comfortable using them. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Patch

[WarrenB]

Watch Phil Michelson short game video on utube. His cock and pop shot is super easy and repeatable 

[Buckeyebowman]

Why would you expect your "chips" to check up? Chips are supposed to run out. If they're not running out enough, hit them a bit harder! 

[boogielicious]

9 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Why would you expect your "chips" to check up? Chips are supposed to run out. If they're not running out enough, hit them a bit harder! 

If you hit a chip harder, it will generate more spin and check up more, especially with higher lofted wedges. If you want more run out, use lower loft or pitch it instead.

[billchao]

15 hours ago, The_WetBandit said:

The greens are small and are just your typical municipal, firm, slow chipping greens. If I chip from over 15 yards, the first contact can more times than not shoot the ball in unexpected directions. The roll isn't smooth, but they don't look terrible. Up close, they just seem not great. Hope this helps paint a picture in mind lol I use to work on a private course with extremely well kept bent grass greens that I miss terribly!!

Firm and slow? What an awful combination. So the greens are both harder to hold and worse to putt on.

15 hours ago, The_WetBandit said:

Do slower greens allow for more check, or does the faster greens allow for the opportunity for more check? 

I was always under the impression that spin on the ball has more effect faster greens.

[miggusrises]

I have found that baked, fluffy greens bounce hard and don't check. They also tend to be inconsistently maintained, with parts of the green having less grass than others. 

Finding fast, well maintained greens to play on is a) way more fun and b) better for your golf.

[The_WetBandit]

Thanks for all the input fellas!! I’ll try to find better quality golf courses/practice areas.

The hunt for breaking 85 continues on... 

 

[Buckeyebowman]

On 6/1/2019 at 6:54 AM, boogielicious said:

If you hit a chip harder, it will generate more spin and check up more, especially with higher lofted wedges. If you want more run out, use lower loft or pitch it instead.

Just re-read the OP, and he mentioned "chips" over 15 yards. If he means 15 yards from the green, that's getting into "pitch" range for me, Of course it also depends on the size of the green, how far away the flagstick is, etc. I rarely chip with a higher lofted club unless I'm short sided. I'm lousy at picking a spot to fly the ball to. If possible I always try to get the ball on the ground and running as quickly as possible.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Buckeyebowman

[boogielicious]

9 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Just re-read the OP, and he mentioned "chips" over 15 yards. If he means 15 yards from the green, that's getting into "pitch" range for me, Of course it also depends on the size of the green, how far away the flagstick is, etc. I rarely chip with a higher lofted club unless I'm short sided. I'm lousy at picking a spot to fly the ball to. If possible I always try to get the ball on the ground and running as quickly as possible.

A pitch and a chip are two different kinds of shots. You can chip over 15 yards. I do this with lower lofted irons or my PW.

[hoselpalooza]

5 hours ago, boogielicious said:

A pitch and a chip are two different kinds of shots. You can chip over 15 yards. I do this with lower lofted irons or my PW.

depends on how much time spent in the air vs on the ground, right? chip spends more time on the ground than in the air whereas a pitch is just the opposite.

however, 15y is generally pitch territory.

[boogielicious]

2 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

depends on how much time spent in the air vs on the ground, right? chip spends more time on the ground than in the air whereas a pitch is just the opposite.

however, 15y is generally pitch territory.

A chip is usually done with the head contacting the ball and ground at the same time in a descending strike, like a full shot. A pitch uses the bounce and has a different swing feel. Chips generate more spin. Pitches are generally higher and land softer.

 

[billchao]

11 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

however, 15y is generally pitch territory.

Different swings, different trajectories, different results. Distance is not what determines the shot selection. As @boogielicious mentioned, you can chip a ball farther than 15 yards.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, hoselpalooza said:

depends on how much time spent in the air vs on the ground, right? chip spends more time on the ground than in the air whereas a pitch is just the opposite.

Horrible definitions IMO. Others share why.

[gbogey]

Personally I have never experienced a practice area green that would give you results you could trust outside of a high end public course or private club and certainly not at a driving range (although yours may be different).  When I am practicing in such places I focus on am I landing the ball near my landing target.  I know how much the ball will normally run out, particularly if I am chipping, so I trust that if I land the ball in the right spot it will end up close to where it should be on the course.

[hoselpalooza]

really not trying to get into a semantic debate. all i'm saying is, generally speaking, chips (or chip 'n runs) spend more time on the ground than in the air, and pitches (or pitch 'n runs) spend more time in the air than the ground. here are the PGA's definitions. 

26 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

A chip is usually done with the head contacting the ball and ground at the same time in a descending strike, like a full shot. A pitch uses the bounce and has a different swing feel. Chips generate more spin. Pitches are generally higher and land softer.

much of this is debatable and some is false.

there are many different techniques. seve used bounce while chipping to hit soft shots with less spin. mickelson's "hinge 'n hold" technique pinches the ball and produces more spin.

for pitch shots, bounce is a fail-safe for certain lies; doesn't mean ground-first contact comes into play. e.g. pitching from hard pan.

chips don't necessarily generate more spin, especially if you use seve's technique and glide the club along the ground. but even if you don't use his technique, consider the difference in spin between a 40y one-hop-stop pitch and an 8-iron chip from the fringe to a hole a few paces away.

17 minutes ago, billchao said:

Different swings, different trajectories, different results. Distance is not what determines the shot selection. As @boogielicious mentioned, you can chip a ball farther than 15 yards.

sure, you can chip a ball that runs out a total of 15 yards. but i don't know many people playing non-links golf who would elect to run a chip over 15y of fairway, which i think is what was implied.

[hoselpalooza]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Horrible definitions IMO. Others share why.

this is such a lazy response; why even bother? 

the definitions are commonly used and what others shared is not entirely correct. 

better definition might be this: pitch shots have more carry than chip shots.

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, hoselpalooza said:

really not trying to get into a semantic debate. all i'm saying is, generally speaking, chips (or chip 'n runs) spend more time on the ground than in the air, and pitches (or pitch 'n runs) spend more time in the air than the ground. here are the PGA's definitions. 

much of this is debatable and some is false.

there are many different techniques. seve used bounce while chipping to hit soft shots with less spin. mickelson's "hinge 'n hold" technique pinches the ball and produces more spin.

for pitch shots, bounce is a fail-safe for certain lies; doesn't mean ground-first contact comes into play. e.g. pitching from hard pan.

chips don't necessarily generate more spin, especially if you use seve's technique and glide the club along the ground. but even if you don't use his technique, consider the difference in spin between a 40y one-hop-stop pitch and an 8-iron chip from the fringe to a hole a few paces away.

sure, you can chip a ball that runs out a total of 15 yards. but i don't know many people playing non-links golf who would elect to run a chip over 15y of fairway, which i think is what was implied.

The link talks about a ‘chip and run’ and a ‘pitch and run’, not a chip or a pitch shot. A bump and run tries to run the ball along the ground. If I ‘chip’ with my LW, I can get it to check up pretty quickly. If I chip with my 8 iron, it will run out more. There are lots of thread on this forum about it.

You can define it however you want, but they are different swing techniques.