FIFA Women’s Final

[rehmwa]

3 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

Yesterday I watched the women's World Cup champions play and then (staying up too late) our beleaguered US men's team lose to Mexico. The quality of play isn't close.

I watched both also.  Frankly, the women's play was much better entertainment.  The US women easily put on a better show than the men's did (I thought the Mexico Men were amazing players, much better than the US - and seemed to have much better attitudes and sportmanship where the opportunities offered themselves to display those attributes - i.e., our men appeared to be grinding out a game and were more pouty and angry, the Mexican men seemed to love the sport and smiled during play, and tried to interact better during delays with our team than ours did with them).

I'd give the women the edge for 'quality'.  the men for power and speed.  I don't consider those required to be equivalent.

I can see why the women's team generates more revenue than the men's just from that experience.

 

other comments:

1 - I'm also glad the women scored an active goal

2 - the women don't flop nearly as bad or as poorly or as often

3 - I wish they'd keep politics out of it and just say "we're here to play and win, not comment on stuff"

4 - Whoever generates more revenue, should get paid more.  I don't which sex gets what, but it should follow the money.  No preferential treatment - either way.

5 - soccer referees are grim bunch, aren't they?

Edited July 8, 2019 by rehmwa

[Vinsk]

The US Men’s Soccer is forever hindered by the poor ideology of defense, defense and more defense. We get our asses handed to us in Soccer because no coach has had the balls to step up and get away from that poor strategy. Their ‘goal’ pun intended is to ‘prevent as many goals against them as possible’ rather than ‘score  as many as possible’ like the Brazilians and most other teams do. 

Even when US has a strong striker such as Pusilic his ball time is limited. They’re too beaten down with thinking playing the mid field and trying to score an inside the 18 goal is the best strategy. Nope. Fire that ball relentlessly with shots from outside the 18 with a one touch when not challenged. Tell the strikers to get a ball on goal in two touches, send all corner kicks to the danger zone. Never, never play a short corner unless you’re just trying to work the clock.

And damn it if this ain’t the Women’s FIFA FINAL thread....OT....lol.

The women go for goals. That’s why their overall strategy is far superior than our pansy, only shoot at open goals men’s strategy.

[klineka]

25 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

the Mexican men seemed to love the sport and smiled during play, and tried to interact better during delays with our team than ours did with them).

This picture begs to differ...

[mcanadiens]

4 minutes ago, klineka said:

This picture begs to differ...

Never once thought of the Mexican side as the happy, go-lucky types.

 

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Why was it unnecessary? It was just another goal celebration.

Oh, are you kidding me?? That was a complete outrage!! An epic insult to an ally nation. I saw decades or even centuries worth of painstakingly built goodwill evaporate in one callous moment.  

And yes, in case you are wondering, I am overly sensitive, high strung person who has never smoked pot.

[rehmwa]

29 minutes ago, klineka said:

This picture begs to differ...

great shot - still, fending off a US player charging you while the ref is also reaching to hold back the US player. Guardado was a bit of an ass to sit our our player for that long, but he also was reaching down to help our guy up when our other player charged at him.

[Groucho Valentine]

27 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

The US Men’s Soccer is forever hindered by the poor ideology of defense, defense and more defense. We get our asses handed to us in Soccer because no coach has had the balls to step up and get away from that poor strategy. Their ‘goal’ pun intended is to ‘prevent as many goals against them as possible’ rather than ‘score  as many as possible’ like the Brazilians and most other teams do. 

Even when US has a strong striker such as Pusilic his ball time is limited. They’re too beaten down with thinking playing the mid field and trying to score an inside the 18 goal is the best strategy. Nope. Fire that ball relentlessly with shots from outside the 18 with a one touch when not challenged. Tell the strikers to get a ball on goal in two touches, send all corner kicks to the danger zone. Never, never play a short corner unless you’re just trying to work the clock.

And damn it if this ain’t the Women’s FIFA FINAL thread....OT....lol.

The women go for goals. That’s why their overall strategy is far superior than our pansy, only shoot at open goals men’s strategy.

This view is categorically wrong. One of the mens national teams most glaring weaknesses over the past 20 years have been unathletic and technically poor defenders. The US soccer system doesn't develop defenders the way other top flight nations do. You cant develop an attacking style when your defenders are just going to get scorched on the back end of it. The past couple US managers have tried to bandaid it by putting former midfielders or full time midfielders at back, and play alot of holding midfielders like Jermaine Jones and Michael Bradley in order to give some cover. That takes two midfielders out of the attack.  The women go for goals because they also have the best defenders in the women's game. 

The most of the rest of the soccer world, the teams best athletes are typically defenders. That was evident is last nights mens game against the Mexico.  In the US the opposite of that is true. Some of that is cultural. Americas sports culture in general rewards virtuoso scorers, not so much defenders. The attacking talent has been there for the US for a long time. Its the defense that actually needs to catch up. 

[dennyjones]

13 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Oh, are you kidding me?? That was a complete outrage!! An epic insult to an ally nation. I saw decades or even centuries worth of painstakingly built goodwill evaporate in one callous moment.  

And yes, in case you are wondering, I am overly sensitive, high strung person who has never smoked pot.

The goal celebration from Alex Morgan was mild compared to some of the stuff that happens in men's professional sports.    If you were to read the article about the celebration it was a tip to Sophie Turner.

Quote

Morgan spoke to reporters Friday, clarifying the source of the goal celebration and referencing the “Game of Thrones” actress. Turner’s Instagram is filled with her saying audacious or gossipy things, adding “That’s the tea” and taking a sip.

 I believe you saw decades or even centuries worth of painstakingly built goodwill evaporate at the last election.

[Groucho Valentine]

3 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

The goal celebration from Alex Morgan was mild compared to some of the stuff that happens in men's professional sports.    If you were to read the article about the celebration it was a tip to Sophie Turner.

 I believe you saw decades or even centuries worth of painstakingly built goodwill evaporate at the last election.

I agree. Men act like they just conquered Persia sometimes when they score a goal. 

[Vinsk]

17 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

This view is categorically wrong. One of the mens national teams most glaring weaknesses over the past 20 years have been unathletic and technically poor defenders. The US soccer system doesn't develop defenders the way other top flight nations do. You cant develop an attacking style when your defenders are just going to get scorched on the back end of it. The past couple US managers have tried to bandaid it by putting former midfielders or full time midfielders at back, and play alot of holding midfielders like Jermaine Jones and Michael Bradley in order to give some cover. That takes two midfielders out of the attack.  The women go for goals because they also have the best defenders in the women's game. 

The most of the rest of the soccer world, the teams best athletes are typically defenders. That was evident is last nights mens game against the Mexico.  In the US the opposite of that is true. Some of that is cultural. Americas sports culture in general rewards virtuoso scorers, not so much defenders. The attacking talent has been there for the US for a long time. Its the defense that actually needs to catch up. 

Nope. You’re wrong. You too have been convinced It’s all about defense. The greatest players have for the vast majority of history been offensive players.  

Edited July 8, 2019 by Vinsk

[mcanadiens]

1 hour ago, rehmwa said:

I'd give the women the edge for 'quality'.  the men for power and speed.  I don't consider those required to be equivalent.

I can see why the women's team generates more revenue than the men's just from that experience.

Everyone loves a winner don't they? 

It is certainly more pleasant from the standpoint of an American spectator to see the women beat an over-matched opponent instead of the opposite situation in the men's match. Mexico, with that blitz to start the second half, was truly better last night and it was pretty frustrating to watch.

That said, I'm not really sure how you remove speed and power from quality. Connecting a pass is a lot easier when you have the kind of time and space the women's game affords. Making the same plays at a higher rate of speed and in closer quarters is a major part of the difference.

U.S. Soccer finds itself in an unusual situation of having a dominant women's side and a men's side that struggles just to qualify. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by mcanadiens

[dennyjones]

10 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

a men's side that struggles just to qualify. 

or doesn't qualify!  

[mcanadiens]

1 minute ago, dennyjones said:

or doesn't qualify!  

I was trying to be nice and 2018 was the first time in a while.

[Groucho Valentine]

38 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Nope. You’re wrong. You too have been convinced It’s all about defense. The greatest players have for the vast majority of history been offensive players.  

Okie dokie. 

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, dennyjones said:

The goal celebration from Alex Morgan was mild compared to some of the stuff that happens in men's professional sports.    If you were to read the article about the celebration it was a tip to Sophie Turner.

 I believe you saw decades or even centuries worth of painstakingly built goodwill evaporate at the last election.

@dennyjones, my entire post was tongue in cheek..😊

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

Mexico, with that blitz

Defensive blitz right? Lol. Yep exactly. Meanwhile the US was thinking they did a great job of allowing only one goal. That’s their mentality.  But it’s soccer. One goal is all it takes. How many shots did Altidore/Pusilic take? See? There you go. Sorry @GolfLug...US needed goals last night. Not ‘tighter defense.’ The best defense in the world can still lose 1-0. 

[boogielicious]

On 7/8/2019 at 2:25 PM, Vinsk said:

Nope. You’re wrong. You too have been convinced It’s all about defense. The greatest players have for the vast majority of history been offensive players.  

And add to it, slow defenders. They go for the big, but slower types. If your sweeper can't match their striker, you will get burned every time. Dunn and the other backs could match almost every forward and mid-fielder stride for stride in this WC. FWIW, I always had one of my fastest players at sweeper and at least one of my fullbacks be very fast and very physical. Other teams can't get by you. You have to check your ego if you are fast and play as a back. But you will win a lot of games as we did. 

The US Women's Team was much deeper than the other teams. England, The Netherlands, Brazil, Spain, Norway etc. had very good players, but the bench for the US would have started on any other team. They also play great team soccer and stick to the plan. That is trusting their coaches big time. They pick when to be aggressive against teams that are vulnerable, but played back against teams that didn't like having the ball. Terrific team approach.

US Men are too arrogant and not nearly as talented and always deviate from the plan.

[mcanadiens]

Not to get confused with the earlier discussion about men's soccer v. women's soccer overall, but as far as the US sides go, comparing the USMNT and USWNT is kind of silly.

The U.S. has been in the forefront of competitive women's soccer. Keep in mind the first FIFA Women's World Cup occurred in 1991, so it hasn't exactly been a long history. With its jump, the US has a deeper talent pool and the best programs to develop that talent.

US men's soccer, by contrast, was decades behind the rest of the world when people started getting somewhat serious about it in the 1990s. I'm not altogether sure I saw a match until the 1993 World Cup. In any case, top male athletes generally don't play the sport in the US and the programs to develop the talent aren't there yet.

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

US Men are too arrogant

I'm really not sure how they can be considered arrogant. Given the recent run of form, they appear rather the opposite to me.

Edited July 9, 2019 by mcanadiens