How Much Can I Dig in My Feet in the Sand?

[Cantankerish]

I put my third shot on the par 5 5th in this front greenside bunker today. Forget for the moment about the other ball. Another player just happened to do the same thing...not important.  But you can see the green in the background (and Kevin's legs).  I am a confident sand player, but this one puts the ball below my feet, and I want to take my standard stroke.  So I dug my feet waaaaayyyy in deep until I was about level with the ball. I hit it nice, raked it out, and got up and down.  But now I am wondering if that digging with my feet is legal.  Is it?

 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

Building a stance???  Where's Rules Guy when you need him?

[Vinsk]

Players dig their feet for stability all the time. If you’re kicking around like a dog that’s one thing...you’re fine. 

[Double Mocha Man]

I remember the rule from my childhood... if you dig your feet in and reach China you've gone too far and it's illegal.

[billchao]

45 minutes ago, Cantankerish said:

I am a confident sand player, but this one puts the ball below my feet, and I want to take my standard stroke.  So I dug my feet waaaaayyyy in deep until I was about level with the ball. I hit it nice, raked it out, and got up and down.  But now I am wondering if that digging with my feet is legal.  Is it?

It's hard to determine your definition of "waaaaayyyy in deep" but it sounds to me like you were in breach of Rule 8.1a. Just based on your description of the shot you took, you didn't play the course as you found it but altered it to suit the shot you wanted to play.

Quote

8.1a/6 – Altering Surface of Ground to Build Stance Is Not Permitted

A player is allowed to place his or her feet firmly in taking a stance, but is in breach of Rule 8.1a if he or she alters the ground where the stance will be taken if altering the ground improves the area of intended stance.

Examples of altering the ground that are likely to improve conditions affecting the stroke include:

• Knocking down sand on the side of a bunker with a foot to create a level area to stand on.

• Excessively digging feet into soft ground to gain a firmer foundation for the stance.

A player is in breach of Rule 8.1a as soon as he or she has improved conditions by altering ground conditions to build a stance and cannot avoid a penalty by attempting to restore the ground conditions to their original state.

Your ball was originally going to be below your feet, but by digging in, you gave yourself a level lie. You improved the conditions affecting your stroke.

2 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I remember the rule from my childhood... if you dig your feet in and reach China you've gone too far and it's illegal.

I know you're being facetious but this is the Rules of Golf sub forum, so it would be helpful if you had something of substance to add to this discussion.

Being that digging your feet in a bunker to reach China is literally impossible, if we took your comment at face value it would mean a golfer could dig as deep as he or she wanted.

[Double Mocha Man]

Of course my comment was in jest.  It was a follow-up to my prior comment which apparently nailed it.  C'mon, a little levity on the forum should be allowed.  Golf is not that serious a game.

[Vinsk]

55 minutes ago, billchao said:

It's hard to determine your definition of "waaaaayyyy in deep" but it sounds to me like you were in breach of Rule 8.1a. Just based on your description of the shot you took, you didn't play the course as you found it but altered it to suit the shot you wanted to play.

Your ball was originally going to be below your feet, but by digging in, you gave yourself a level lie. You improved the conditions affecting your stroke.

I know you're being facetious but this is the Rules of Golf sub forum, so it would be helpful if you had something of substance to add to this discussion.

Being that digging your feet in a bunker to reach China is literally impossible, if we took your comment at face value it would mean a golfer could dig as deep as he or she wanted.

I don’t agree here Bill. Now of course you’re right in that we don’t know what ‘waaay’ down is but we’ve seen those times where pros are in the side and they’ve dug in like hell and reached the concrete/tarp then claim they can’t get a solid stance and get a drop. And a common routine on the bottom of the bunker even is: get to ball...shuffle feet...check target ....shuffle feet...practice swing....shuffle feet...Swing. Unless he was really going to town I wouldn’t call this a breach.

[Cantankerish]

Well, I typically dig in to get a good stance, and I think one could argue that I did not dig in categorically more than some pros do.  But I INTENTIONALLY dug in to get level.  It sure seems like I was in breach of this rule.  Even though the other guys thought nothing of it, I know it.

[Rulesman]

"A player is allowed to place his or her feet firmly in taking a stance, ..."

That doesn't sound like all you did

" ...but is in breach of Rule 8.1a if he or she alters the ground where the stance will be taken ..."

Well you certainly did that

" .... if altering the ground improves the area of intended stance." 

If it didn't, why did you do it? 

Certainly seems to fit the bill for a breach 

What the pros may or may not do means nothing, witness tamping grass down behind ball, leaving ball as backstop

[boogielicious]

8 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Of course my comment was in jest.  It was a follow-up to my prior comment which apparently nailed it.  C'mon, a little levity on the forum should be allowed.  Golf is not that serious a game.

That is why they invented emojis. 

[Vinsk]

8 hours ago, Cantankerish said:

  But I INTENTIONALLY dug in to get level. 

There’s your answer.

[Groucho Valentine]

If you read that rule literally, just walking into the bunker and leaving footprints is a breach.. Theres nothing in there that specifies how deep or shallow you're allowed to go.  But if youre dug in past your ankle to something... that would be.....unusual.... When I dig in, i dig my trail leg on an angle on my instep for stability and to help me stay forwards a little better. Some asshat i was playing with in a US open qualifier in a long time ago said i was building a stance when i did that. In the tent the rules official said "no i didnt" and then i gave him the "u cant see me" wave and he cowered back to his car in shame after shooting a dreadful 80-something. But in cantakerish's case, im confused why he choose to do that. He probably made the shot harder...

Edited October 7, 2019 by Groucho Valentine

[Patch]

Out here, in the desert southwest, we have little fear of "over digging" our feet in a bunker. At least 1/2 if not more of the courses I frequent, the bunkers could always use more sand, to cover the hard pan underneath.

Plus, they irrigate bunkers out here, then allow them to sun bake. Some develope a pretty thick, crusty surface, if not maintained properly. We treat these as "thin lies", and we can't dig-in very deep. 

I am pretty sure with the usga, there is no depth limit for digging in. The other question is; why would anyone want to dig in so deep, the sand would get into their shoes...A self imposed limit, so to speak. 

Also, as a side note, if one did dig-in deep enough to reach China, they wouldn't. Going that deep, from America, assuming alot, would actually find the bottom of the Indian Ocean. 

 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

17 minutes ago, Patch said:

Also, as a side note, if one did dig-in deep enough to reach China, they wouldn't. Going that deep, from America, assuming alot, would actually find the bottom of the Indian Ocean. 

 

 

😄

[Vinsk]

34 minutes ago, Patch said:

Going that deep, from America, assuming alot, would actually find the bottom of the Indian Ocean. 

The Earth is flat. And low scores are all about the short game so good bunker play is a must.

[Double Mocha Man]

4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

The Earth is flat. And low scores are all about the short game so good bunker play is a must.

The Earth is definitely not flat at my home course. 100 to 200 feet elevation changes.

[AlDena]

17 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Golf is not that serious a game.

GASP!  GASP again!

[iacas]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:04 AM, Groucho Valentine said:

If you read that rule literally, just walking into the bunker and leaving footprints is a breach.

No, it doesn't.

"A player is allowed to place his or her feet firmly in taking a stance…" allows for a little shuffling of "top sand" to get to a bit of a firmer base. You just can't go below that.