LIV Golf Now Closed?

[Sandy Lie]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

You're not getting it.

And telling me to "please read this" implies that you've discovered something we don't know, and I can tell you very much that this is not the case, and that equating "buying gas" with what Cam Smith or whomever does for MBS is a folly.

And… "allied smear merchants"? Oy.

If you can't see the difference between this:

… and directly taking money from the Saudi PIF, then I don't know what to tell you.

Jeez. Heck, we have a Saudi Arabian member here too. OH NOES, TST is aligned with MBS, too!

Cripes.

Relax!

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

Relax!

Perfectly calm here. I just think you're making a series of really bad posts.

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, Sandy Lie said:

The hypocrisy here is we condemn Saudi Arabia then fill our cars full of gas.  The US does it all the time. We buy about 16% of our Uranium from Russia. The US is currently banning all Energy Imports from Russia except….Uranium. No matter the issues we have with other countries trade still continues. 
In regard to PGA vs LIV and citing Human Rights, blood money it gets on everyone’s hands indirectly.

It’s almost disturbing you can’t see the difference here.

[Sandy Lie]

31 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

It’s almost disturbing you can’t see the difference here.

No Kevin, what’s disturbing is you. I can have my view, and you can have yours. Moving on!

[Vinsk]

4 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

No Kevin, what’s disturbing is you. I can have my view, and you can have yours. Moving on!

Relax.

[jbishop15]

It’s one thing to participate in a global economy with a murderous, vile regime, and another to get cut a f***ing check from their personal bank account 

Edited August 31, 2022 by jbishop15

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

It’s one thing to participate in a global economy with a murderous, vile regime, and another to get cut a f***ing check from their personal bank account 

Nah, same thing. Hypocrite.</sarcasm>

[Hugh Jars]

Its comical hearing ignorant American idiots continually call out the Saudis for their human rights record.

"BuT ItS BlOoD MoNeY" 🤪

https://www.humanrightspulse.com/mastercontentblog/hypocrisy-and-human-rights-abuses-in-the-land-of-the-free

Edited August 31, 2022 by Hugh Jars

[Dinglegolf]

14 hours ago, Sandy Lie said:

The PGA has control over several tour in several countries. Are they a monopoly? I would say yes. So when a competitor comes along they get upset.

As opposed to all those non-monopolies who open up champagne when a competitor comes along who is operating outside of any reasonable market constraints to undercut your business and threatening your very livelihood?  

 

 

14 hours ago, Sandy Lie said:

I’m sure we won’t agree, and  I’m not trying to convince anyone that LIV is bad or good. But it’s here, players are jumping for money and other reasons. Condemning them doesn’t change anything. Am I disappointed? Mostly yes. Maybe it’s not a Gentleman’s game anymore.

 

They are jumping for the money.  Call it for what it is.  No player makes this jump if LIV is operating within expected market constraints.

14 hours ago, Sandy Lie said:

I’m not saying look the other way, but competition breads change. Some are afraid of it. Some embrace it. I’ll go out on a limb and say in several years this won’t matter. Another level of competition will be born from this. Or maybe it just goes away.

 

Are you are happy that some of the world's best players are on a tour that is effectively a glorified exhibition?  Is that a good change to pro golf?  

[boogielicious]

6 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Its comical hearing ignorant American idiots continually call out the Saudis for their human rights record.

"BuT ItS BlOoD MoNeY" 🤪

https://www.humanrightspulse.com/mastercontentblog/hypocrisy-and-human-rights-abuses-in-the-land-of-the-free

Australia has its own sad history too. But we are talking about LIV golf in this thread, not Australia or the USA. 

[boogielicious]

Saudi woman gets 45 years in prison for social media use | AP News

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DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — A Saudi court has sentenced a woman to 45 years in prison for allegedly damaging the country through her social media activity, according to a court...

The LIV players better keep their wives and girl friends in check.

[Friz]

10 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Its comical hearing ignorant American idiots continually call out the Saudis for their human rights record.

"BuT ItS BlOoD MoNeY" 🤪

https://www.humanrightspulse.com/mastercontentblog/hypocrisy-and-human-rights-abuses-in-the-land-of-the-free

Yes because all of us "ignorant American idiots" blindly support everything happening in this country.  Come on man....this topic is wildly political and not going down that path here, but suffice it to say that there are tons of Americans that are NOT ok with certain things going on here.  Hence all the protests about things that were specifically mentioned in that article.....

[Moxley]

14 hours ago, iacas said:

Leishman is 38. Anirban Lahiri is 92nd in OWGR and… hasn't really done much of note. They're not big losses for the PGA Tour.

 

Individually , not a big loss (not insignificant either). As a group though, it's a big problem that gets bigger with every defection. 

The PGA Tour still has a compelling product, and for fans in some countries that hasn't changed much at all. The issue is that the PGA does not want to have to compete with LIV, and is trying to stop it competing. To do that, they need the world institutions to shut LIV players out , and also keep on board their sponsors. 

Already, it's hard to see fans in South Africa, Mexico, Australia being interested in the presidents cup, which will basically be a farce this year. The same problem will apply to the majors next year if LIV players are excluded - there are now 4 elite golfers with LIV and a dozen or so players who'd normally be in the field, so the competitions are not as credible without, nor would they attract as many fans. 

At the same time, Monahan wants to drastically increase the prize money to come from LIV, so the PGA tour's pitch to the sponsors and broadcasters will effectively be "less for more". Not only that, but needs the OWGR, majors and international team competitions to do the same. He's done an impressive job at getting solidarity from the DP World tour & R&A , but at some point the ultimate funders are going to realise that they are being had, and the PGA Tour will have to accept reality and instead work out a way to coexist with and compete with LIV. 

The 'A' plan to kill LIV has already failed - if it's dragged out, the golf fan will be the loser.  

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

Individually , not a big loss (not insignificant either). As a group though, it's a big problem that gets bigger with every defection.

Meh.

There can't be that many more defections, either. Their field size is 48.

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

The issue is that the PGA does not want to have to compete with LIV, and is trying to stop it competing.

I don't think that's an accurate way of saying that (and I'm not counting that you said PGA and not PGA Tour).

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

Already, it's hard to see fans in South Africa, Mexico, Australia being interested in the presidents cup, which will basically be a farce this year.

The PGA Tour's primary market is still the USA. Sure, they'd love to continue to branch out, but… again, South Africans are not ONLY going to play on LIV, either. You can't divide up 48 into covering too many players from too many countries.

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

The same problem will apply to the majors next year if LIV players are excluded - there are now 4 elite golfers with LIV and a dozen or so players who'd normally be in the field, so the competitions are not as credible without, nor would they attract as many fans.

Many people who watch the majors don't even have a clue who is playing or not. They know like three players, and Tiger is one of them.

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

At the same time, Monahan wants to drastically increase the prize money to come from LIV

Huh?

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

but at some point the ultimate funders are going to realise that they are being had, and the PGA Tour will have to accept reality and instead work out a way to coexist with and compete with LIV.

I don't know that I agree, but I'm having a little trouble knowing exactly what you're trying to say given the many issues with the things that you've said. 😄

[ChetlovesMer]

13 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Its comical hearing ignorant American idiots continually call out the Saudis for their human rights record.

"BuT ItS BlOoD MoNeY" 🤪

https://www.humanrightspulse.com/mastercontentblog/hypocrisy-and-human-rights-abuses-in-the-land-of-the-free

Wow.

The article you posted here is probably off topic. Technically it's not an article. It's a blog entry by a college student. I'm sure the young lady that wrote it is a very nice person. But she has no idea what she's talking about. The areas she points out as human rights violations have been so exaggerated and include so many sweeping generalizations that its almost comical. 

Which is not to say the US hasn't done horrible things during its history. Obviously, every civilized nation of any size has done things its citizens aren't proud of. And the US is no different. We've got our share of nasty ugly skeletons in our closet. 

The young lady who wrote this blog actually could have found dozens of human rights offenses that the US would be guilty of during its history. Instead she suggests "voter suppression"? The bill she's referring to would just bring Florida's voting laws in line with what most of the rest of the country already has. Whether you are for or against allowing non-citizens to vote and/or using government issued ID's as a way of assuring each citizen gets only one vote doesn't matter. Either way, to say that's a human rights offense is at best a stretch. 

She goes on to argue ... and I quote "The death of George Floyd at the hands of US police officers has triggered worldwide protests against police brutality. American protestors have largely been met with further violence from the police." The fact that US citizens protested the way George Floyd was treated shows we don't accept human rights violations here in the US. And we don't just call out other countries for human rights violations. We call out our own country as well. 

AND NO, protestors have NOT been largely met with further violence from the police. Quite the contrary. The police have been assigned to protect the protestors and have done a pretty good job in doing so. Have mistakes been made? Of course there have. Tempers were very high. The vast majority of the protests have been well protected by the police and most protests  have gone off without incident. 

Further more, as a rule, US protestors are always protected by the police. Even Neo-Nazis, Skin-Heads, and Flat-Earthers are protected. Yes, some violent protestors are arrested. Often let go the next day without being charged, but sometimes not. However, in Saudi Arabia, as you all know, they recently beheaded 81 quote/unquote protestors. About half of which hadn't actually participated in protests, but in fact just spoke out about their displeasure with their government. 

So, to this young lady... and to you...  I'd ask; Which is the greater human rights offense, protecting protestors or beheading them? 

Once again, there's lots of sh!t the US has done which has been horrible throughout its history. But this blog entry is so bad that it almost supports the other side of the argument. It's one of those cases where I don't want you on my side, because you are so terrible at argument that it makes us all look bad.

So, to your point; us "Ignorant American Idiots" do speak out against human rights violations in Saudi Arabia. We also speak out against human rights violations here in the US. As human beings we have a responsibility to protect all human rights, for all humans. No matter where they live. We are all part of the human race. You are either part of the solution, part of the problem, or part of the scenery. 

[Jeremie Boop]

15 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Wow.

The article you posted here is probably off topic. 

It's pretty much definitely off topic. But I agree with your point. By and large, the populace of the US does not ignore human rights violations in our own country. I think the main thing is, we have the ability to not put up with it, whereas many places in the world people don't have that freedom.

[iacas]

Yes, we are straying too far from the topic.

[phan52]

Cameron Tringale's letter should be evidence exhibit #1 in defense of the PGA Tour whenever the LIV suit gets to court. The Tour MADE all of those guys, and they know it.