LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[70sSanO]

59 minutes ago, iacas said:

You didn't read what I wrote.

It's not about how much the top guys are paid. It's about how much the top guys are paid relative to the bottom guys. The top guys on the PGA Tour are subsidizing the bottom guys. That the bottom guys make 25% as much as the top guys isn't seen in any other major sport. The top guys in those sports earn 20x what some of the bottom guys make.

Fair enough.  I’m don’t have a solution.  I.don’t have the stats, but the top players do not seem to be in the top 25 each week.  There is a lot of parity out there these days.  And some of the excitement are watching the young players.

Some of it sounds like professional tennis.  The men’s side is so boring, especially the majors.  The same top 3 have won 90% of the grand slam tournaments for more than a decade. They may be great but I’m tired of watching, now, mid to late 30 somethings.  The women’s side is so wide open that the majors are really interesting.

i think it really comes down to growing interest in the sport.  Obviously Tiger drives the bus, but I’m not sure watching the same top players is going to help; especially when their game is off.  The young guns need to take over and develop a following.  And I don’t know if a golf version of World Team Tennis will be any more successful and draw viewers.

In the end it is all about how many are willing to give up their weekend to watch.  That has always been a stumbling block for the sport.  If you work you play on the weekends and people who don’t play golf rarely watch, outside of Tiger.

John

[70sSanO]

I’ll also add that Rory has lost the entire concept of all spots today when he talks about a transition from a competitive tour to entertainment with TV and people coming to watch, to getting back to where it was.

A lot of work was spent decades ago to bring golf to TV.  You can’t separate the TV aspect from the reward.  Without TV presenting golf as entertainment, Tiger is just on page 7 of the sports section with some still photos.  And the words better than most, better than most, better than most, seem to lose a bit in print.

John

[cutchemist42]

On 2/1/2020 at 8:06 PM, 70sSanO said:

I understand the comparison, but it really comes down to viewers and TV money.  MLB, NBA and NFL are each getting billions per year to broadcast their games

You also have team owners that typically are not dependent on a team’s success for their livelihood.

A case can be made for NHL contracts especially in the 40 point players.  If a player has a breakout year there is no $20m-$30m/year contract waiting.

It is unfortunate, but while we watch $5m 30 second Super Bowl commercials tomorrow, the winner of the Waste Mgmt will only get about 8 seconds worth.

John

I think compared to similar  individual contractor sports the ratio is off. The top tennis players are much better off than the bottom. The talk about what is fair is a subjective political preference in a way though.

 

I would argue as well that seeing the same guys st the top is much more interesting and better for storylines and rivalries. People look back fondly at legends and giants, and not random outcomes like the PGA or NHL.

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by cutchemist42

[krupa]

I think the PGA Tour has saturated the market with golf coverage and without a significant difference in what the viewer sees, they (the viewers) won't be interested. "Oh, another golf tournament?"  "This one is team-based!".  "Ok, so how is that different?"  "It's... got teams"

 

I know this is a little off-topic, but this statement grinds my gears

Quote

But I think it might be a catalyst for some changes on this tour that can help it grow and move forward and reward the top players the way they should be.

Does he not understand how money works and how much he and almost every PGA Tour winner has compared to the vast majority of people in the world? They can win more in four days than most people see in multiple lifetimes. And yeah, they work hard for it, I get that, but they're still just playing a game.

I don't begrudge him and other golfers their success but when they start talking like they're struggling to pay their bills, I stop caring. 

Also, 

Quote

it's sort of transitioned from, you know, a competition tour to entertainment, right? It's on TV, it's people coming out to watch. It's definitely a different time than what it was before.

Rory Rory Rory... where do you think the money comes from so the top players can be rewarded the pittance they currently get?

 

[DeadMan]

One thing I really hate about this ... whatever you want to call it ... is that it seems to be backed by people that I don't want to dictate the future of goal. Saudis? No thanks. Phil seems to be involved. Hard pass on that. 

[Buckeyebowman]

12 hours ago, krupa said:

. 

Also, 

Rory Rory Rory... where do you think the money comes from so the top players can be rewarded the pittance they currently get?

I honestly don't think you understand the meaning of the word "pittance"!

12 hours ago, krupa said:

 

 

[krupa]

9 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I honestly don't think you understand the meaning of the word "pittance"!

It should have been in quotes to indicate the sarcasm.

[skydog]

On 1/31/2020 at 7:23 PM, 70sSanO said:

I found this statement by Rory a little bit puzzling:

”... you know, reward the top players the way they should be, I guess.”

Then again, $15M just does not go as far as it used to.

John

 

The top players on tour- the ones who actually put butts in the seats- are subsidizing the salaries of the ‘average’ tour pro. The 100th player on the money list is not contributing the $1 mill+ in value that he is pocketing. Meanwhile, Rory and Tiger are contributing infinitely more in value than whatever they are making on the course in any given year. 

[70sSanO]

2 hours ago, skydog said:

The top players on tour- the ones who actually put butts in the seats- are subsidizing the salaries of the ‘average’ tour pro. The 100th player on the money list is not contributing the $1 mill+ in value that he is pocketing. Meanwhile, Rory and Tiger are contributing infinitely more in value than whatever they are making on the course in any given year. 

This was already brought up.

But, as a point of reference, there isn’t much difference between the top golfers subsidizing the tour and the big market major sports franchises subsidizing the small market/low revenue teams.

When the Canadiens are making $100m and the Coyotes are losing $15m, who do you suppose helps the league the most in terms of a getting a better broadcasting contract?

And to add insult to injury, how many snowbirds are helping low revenue sun belt teams?

John

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

But, as a point of reference, there isn’t much difference between the top golfers subsidizing the tour and the big market major sports franchises subsidizing the small market/low revenue teams.

Yes there is.

[70sSanO]

Maybe so.  Rory complains about not getting paid his due.  He doesn’t seem to have an issue with only getting $300m from Nike and Taylormade.  I kinda think the 100th ranked player doesn’t quite have the same endorsements.

That’s where the real money is made.  Tiger Woods has earned $120m playing golf.  His total earnings are a billion dollars.

John

[leftybutnotPM]

1 minute ago, 70sSanO said:

  Rory complains about not getting paid his due.  

John

He does not. Where does he say this? Stop making stiff up.

[ncates00]

10 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

Rory complains about not getting paid his due.

You base this assertion on what exactly?

17 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

I kinda think the 100th ranked player doesn’t quite have the same endorsements.

For good reason.

17 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

That’s where the real money is made.  Tiger Woods has earned $120m playing golf.  His total earnings are a billion dollars.

Very true.

[70sSanO]

To really put this in perspective... Jordan Spieth made $30m last year.  That’s a ton of money to play on Thursday and Friday... lol.

I’ve seen his robotic Club Champion commercial and that has to be one of the worst ever.  At least Rickie is entertaining:

John

[iacas]

44 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

To really put this in perspective... Jordan Spieth made $30m last year.  That’s a ton of money to play on Thursday and Friday... lol.

Jordan played 23 events last year and missed the cut in four of them.

C'mon man.

He also won over $2M and finished 44th in the FedExCup.

[70sSanO]

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

Jordan played 23 events last year and missed the cut in four of them.

C'mon man.

He also won over $2M and finished 44th in the FedExCup.

You’re right.  Jordan actually played well on Thursday and Friday.  The weekend was his downfall.

I should have resisted the cheap shot made only for effect.

Added:  I had read, right or wrong, that his endorsements for 2019 were around $30m.

John

Edited February 7, 2020 by 70sSanO

[70sSanO]

Thanks everyone for letting me indulge in this thread.

I recently got a high ankle sprain so I haven't been able to hit much less play.  Looking up stats and stuff, and posting, has been a bit of therapy for me.

John

[Buckeyebowman]

On 2/1/2020 at 9:10 PM, iacas said:

You didn't read what I wrote.

It's not about how much the top guys are paid. It's about how much the top guys are paid relative to the bottom guys. The top guys on the PGA Tour are subsidizing the bottom guys. That the bottom guys make 25% as much as the top guys isn't seen in any other major sport. The top guys in those sports earn 20x what some of the bottom guys make.

So true! Some years ago I read an interview with a lower level player, who had finished down the money list in some tournament. This was when Tiger was in his ascendancy, and he said that every player on Tour owed a huge debt to him! He said that back in the day, where he finished might have made him $4K! Because of all the money Tiger attracted to the Tour, these days he made $40K! Thank you Tiger!