LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[jmanbooyaa]

It also appears Brooks status as a Nike athlete is over. Not sure they are linked to him joining Liv or just a coincidence that they didn’t extend. I only saw that based off his twitter bio. Who knows how accurate. 

[PatrickMurtha]

14 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

I think he is probably the best, still in his prime player to take the LIV Golf path (maybe DJ fits this as well). That said, I couldn't care less, since IMO Brooks is one of the most dull and off-putting players in professional golf. Outside of his hot streak in majors a few years ago, and the ridiculous drama/feud with Bryson, he's not much more than a Talor Gooch to me, as far as appeal/interest.

Brooks thinks people dislike him because he’s confident, but that’s not right; confidence is attractive in a winning personality. The problem is that he is the distillation of every arrogant jerk you ever knew in high school, in college, and in your office. Bryson’s arrogance is at least quirky; Brooks’, as you say, is dull. Helluva golfer, though. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by PatrickMurtha

[Big C]

Looking at the current LIV lineup in it's totality, it actually gives me a bit of a chuckle. 

Brooks/DJ/Bryson/Reed/Sergio. If I someone asked me last year to put together a list of the most un-likeable guys on the PGA Tour, I think Reed, Bryson and Sergio would have battled it out for the top spot and Brooks probably would have found himself somewhere in the top 10. Meanwhile DJ in his prime was fun to watch, but he has the personality of a doorknob.

If these guys are the face of LIV Golf, perhaps the PGA tour might be better off for it in the long run. Rooting for Rory, JT, Horschel, Zalatoris, etc. will become much easier for fans who know what they have turned down financially to keep the tour alive. 

I just really hope LIV doesn't pull a "good guy" like Morikawa because a domino like that might be tough to overcome for some of the others who might be taking a wait and see approach.

[JetFan1983]

4 minutes ago, Big C said:

Looking at the current LIV lineup in it's totality, it actually gives me a bit of a chuckle. 

Brooks/DJ/Bryson/Reed/Sergio. If I someone asked me last year to put together a list of the most un-likeable guys on the PGA Tour, I think Reed, Bryson and Sergio would have battled it out for the top spot and Brooks probably would have found himself somewhere in the top 10. Meanwhile DJ in his prime was fun to watch, but he has the personality of a doorknob.

 

Yup. And you forgot Ian Poulter. Arguably the worst one of them all. 

[jmanbooyaa]

All have appeared in Ryder Cups. That is the most disappointing. 

[Friz]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

They don’t necessarily have the 160 million, they can get sponsors to pay for it.

Also, without the top players, who would the fans have to watch? You have to take care of them first.

I certainly understand taking care of the top players, its just the format that is not really interesting to me.  Jon Rahm had a great quote before the US Open where he mentioned the LIV format - 54 holes no cut - was to him "not a real tournament."  Is 72 holes of no cut more of a tournament?  I know they did it for WGC, and I know its done in the Sentry Tournament of Champions, but the no cut format just doesn't excite me the same way fighting to make the weekend does.

Wherever they are getting the money to fund these 8 new events, I just wish they could have come up with something a little less like the LIV format.  Or found another way to reward their top guys.  Instead, it feels like they're trying to say "look we can do that too....."  Its just missing shotgun starts and an arbitrary team aspect

[Darkfrog]

Just now, Friz said:

I certainly understand taking care of the top players, its just the format that is not really interesting to me.  Jon Rahm had a great quote before the US Open where he mentioned the LIV format - 54 holes no cut - was to him "not a real tournament."  Is 72 holes of no cut more of a tournament?  I know they did it for WGC, and I know its done in the Sentry Tournament of Champions, but the no cut format just doesn't excite me the same way fighting to make the weekend does.

Wherever they are getting the money to fund these 8 new events, I just wish they could have come up with something a little less like the LIV format.  Or found another way to reward their top guys.  Instead, it feels like they're trying to say "look we can do that too....."  Its just missing shotgun starts and an arbitrary team aspect

Aren't the Fedex playoffs no-cut events (I know at least the last one is)?

I think this format makes sense to funnel more money to the top players, instead of just raising the purses for regular tour events. I think if these events had a field that included the top players for the season, it would still be interesting, even with no cut.

[JetFan1983]

I understand keeping the top guys happy, but what about the lesser ones? Am I the only one here who thinks that players with a PGA Tour card who miss the cut should get a little something for their effort? Like $3K or something for expenses? Monday qualifiers, sponsor's exemptions, anyone w/o a full status card should still get zero, but it seems, I dunno, a bit odd you can put in the time to entertain fans from Monday to Friday and leave with nothing.

I have no clue as per the financials if this would even be feasible. But if like 80 guys with a card miss the cut on any given week and they each get $3K, then that costs the tour $240K extra. Doesn't seem like a whole lot. 

[Big C]

12 minutes ago, JetFan1983 said:

Yup. And you forgot Ian Poulter. Arguably the worst one of them all. 

Call me crazy but I have a soft spot for Ian Poulter. He's like Reed, but with a dry wit and less cheating. I would have loved to have a guy like him on the US Ryder Cup team over the past 2 decades. 

15 minutes ago, jmanbooyaa said:

All have appeared in Ryder Cups. That is the most disappointing. 

True, but let's see what other guys can do with the opportunity. DJ's 5-0 was impressive but his game appears to be slipping and he's not exactly someone you get energized to root for. Brooks? I literally don't have a single Ryder Cup memory of Brooks Koepka except the reported locker room fight between him and DJ in France. Bryson was a liability at Le Golf National, and probably would have been again on the tight Euro layout in 2023 (in the unlikely event that he would have qualified). And Reed was such a bad teammate that he was left off the 2021 squad despite a 7-3-1 lifetime Ryder Cup record. 

For me, the Ryder Cup is all about feeling a sense of connection to the US guys. Win or lose, I'm not going to miss rooting for any of the above.

 

[saevel25]

Morikawa affirms he is staying with the PGA Tour...

 

[Moxley]

I think there has been a lot of media manipulation on this, and I'm not surprised that people are hating on the new tour because they are being fed a constant diet of emotive arguments against it. 

I don't really like the idea of a Saudi backed tour, but as already been pointed out ,  the PGA tour sponsors do business with Saudi, we do ourselves indirectly as consumers, and , worst of all, we have golf tournaments in worse places like China.  So I'm not personally going to suddenly make a distinction for the Liv tour. Sports bodies, tours etc either ought to be ethical, not for profit, community orientated organisations (we can dream), or otherwise they might as well at least have some competition to keep them honest. I think we're early in this story so we'll see how it plays out. 

I think there is a world though where the PGA tour and Liv can co-exist together. PGA would have players at or before the peak of their careers while Liv would have players who fit one of several conditions : 

a) Former stars past their peak, but still competitive and not yet champions league age/standard

b) players from countries outside of ryder cup countries, who may care less for the traditional institutions

c) B list players who are willing to be flexible and ambassadors for Liv in order to make a lot more money

 

The PGA would be a higher standard, but Liv would have similar or better name recognition. While the PGA tour would perhaps be more interesting for avid golf fans, I could see people like my dad quite happy to tune in to watch a tournament with Sergio, Westwood, Mickleson, Schwartzel etc .

 

 

 

[Friz]

27 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

Aren't the Fedex playoffs no-cut events (I know at least the last one is)?

Last two are...sort of.  I tend to view these events differently though because while there isn't a Friday cut, there is still a Sunday cut.

1st playoff event has a normal cut, but in addition players are scrambling for position to try to get points to make the top 70 in FedEx standings.  2nd event does not have a weekend cut, but there is still jockeying for position as anyone outside the top 30 in FedEx is cut.   Then third event is just the Tour Championship, I'm ok with no cut there simply for what that event represents

[PatrickMurtha]

52 minutes ago, Big C said:

True, but let's see what other guys can do with the opportunity. DJ's 5-0 was impressive but his game appears to be slipping and he's not exactly someone you get energized to root for. Brooks? I literally don't have a single Ryder Cup memory of Brooks Koepka except the reported locker room fight between him and DJ in France. Bryson was a liability at Le Golf National, and probably would have been again on the tight Euro layout in 2023 (in the unlikely event that he would have qualified). And Reed was such a bad teammate that he was left off the 2021 squad despite a 7-3-1 lifetime Ryder Cup record. 

For me, the Ryder Cup is all about feeling a sense of connection to the US guys. Win or lose, I'm not going to miss rooting for any of the above.

 

It seems to me that the biggest loss for any Cups team so far is Ancer for the International team in the Presidents - assuming that he will in fact be ineligible, it’s not entirely clear to me. He might have been a mainstay of that team for some years to come.

Free-floating comment: It has taken me many years to realize this, but a surprisingly high percentage of professional athletes are intensely self-pitying. One might think that they would be very grateful to be able to make a superior living doing (1) something that they enjoy which (2) is inherently not all that important. But in fact many feel misunderstood and hard done by their leagues / tours, fans, officials, sponsors, agents, media, and humanity in general. (Brooks Koepka: “I’m such a stud, it’s no wonder that you all hate me.”) 

Edited June 21, 2022 by PatrickMurtha

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, JetFan1983 said:

Am I the only one here who thinks that players with a PGA Tour card who miss the cut should get a little something for their effort?

“Hey Lama! How about a little something for the effort?” - Carl Spackler

I thinks they do get other benefits.

[JetFan1983]

54 minutes ago, Big C said:

Call me crazy but I have a soft spot for Ian Poulter. He's like Reed, but with a dry wit and less cheating. I would have loved to have a guy like him on the US Ryder Cup team over the past 2 decades. 

 

Agree we could've used his mercenary-like services these past twenty years, but his tendency to berate fans and photographers because he's frustrated he hit a less-than-acceptable shot definitely puts him in the "I'm not surprised he went to LIV" camp for me. 

[PatrickMurtha]

2 hours ago, Big C said:

Looking at the current LIV lineup in it's totality, it actually gives me a bit of a chuckle. 

Brooks/DJ/Bryson/Reed/Sergio. If I someone asked me last year to put together a list of the most un-likeable guys on the PGA Tour, I think Reed, Bryson and Sergio would have battled it out for the top spot and Brooks probably would have found himself somewhere in the top 10. Meanwhile DJ in his prime was fun to watch, but he has the personality of a doorknob.

If these guys are the face of LIV Golf, perhaps the PGA tour might be better off for it in the long run. Rooting for Rory, JT, Horschel, Zalatoris, etc. will become much easier for fans who know what they have turned down financially to keep the tour alive. 

I just really hope LIV doesn't pull a "good guy" like Morikawa because a domino like that might be tough to overcome for some of the others who might be taking a wait and see approach.

100% agree with this, the LIV list is freaking bursting-at-the-seams with sullen types that I would go several miles out of my way to avoid. It is attracting a definite personality. Not exactly Funville. And anyone who thinks that these guys who are so angry at the PGA Tour are going to remain in a honeymoon with LIV and the Saudis knows nothing of human nature. The dissatisfied are always dissatisfied. Divorced people remarry and then sure enough, get divorced again. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by PatrickMurtha

[colin007]

>Collin Morikawa - "Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got some cereal to pour in my milk."

>Bone saw weilding Saudi.

 

Pick your monster.

[Darkfrog]

5 minutes ago, colin007 said:

>Collin Morikawa - "Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got some cereal to pour in my milk."

>Bone saw weilding Saudi.

 

Pick your monster.

I'll take draw-hitting cereal-to-milk Collin over the bonesaw.