LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Alx said:

Funny how they had no problem with the LPGA being backed by the saudis.

The LPGA Tour isn't. Some of the players and some non-LPGA Tour events are (Aramco Team Series).

The women are in a very different place than the men, too. Just like me using an ICE car doesn't put me in the same category as Bryson taking $125M to help sports wash.

[Elmer]

U.S. Open champion Bryson DeChambeau is a world-class phony - The Washington Post

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Bryson DeChambeau is a sellout, which makes his latest PR push awfully rich.

 

Edited June 21 by iacas
We don't copy/paste entire articles. That's theft.

[dsc123]

7 minutes ago, Elmer said:

thin, gimmicky rough of Pinehurst, which instead of the usual U.S. Open’s shoetop-curling long grass consisted of sand wastes filled with “native plants carried by sandhill breezes and native birds,” or what you and I call weeds.

Ooof.  Bash Bryson all you want but leave these bad takes about Pinehurst No. 2 out of it, lol.  

 

[Archie Bunker]

3 hours ago, Elmer said:

 

 

Stewart was no pure saint; he could be surly and big headed and profligate early in his career, and he certainly liked his money. “Sales are going up,” he joked on winning the PGA in his signature knickers. But he steadily matured, he knew the fine line between winning and losing a major by a stroke could be all but indefinable, and he came to believe golf was as much a personal ethic as a game. Maybe DeChambeau, too, can mature, into someone who deserves to properly invoke Payne Stewart.

You have to wonder what Payne Stewart might have done if the Saudis put a $125MM check in front of him. As quoted above, he "certainly liked his money". We will never know.

[Vinsk]

LIV Golf streaming partner shutters midway through inaugural season

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LIV Golf's first streaming partner, Caffeine TV, shuttered midway through its first season paired with the...

Perhaps Norman could pitch his product to Obscure Sports Quarterly 😂😂😂. @boogielicious will get the reference!

[boogielicious]

9 hours ago, Vinsk said:

LIV Golf streaming partner shutters midway through inaugural season

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LIV Golf's first streaming partner, Caffeine TV, shuttered midway through its first season paired with the...

Perhaps Norman could pitch his product to Obscure Sports Quarterly 😂😂😂. @boogielicious will get the reference!

Maybe ESPN The Ocho?

[GolfLug]

On 6/20/2024 at 7:42 PM, Archie Bunker said:

You have to wonder what Payne Stewart might have done if the Saudis put a $125MM check in front of him. As quoted above, he "certainly liked his money". We will never know.

We will never know but plenty of players have turned down LIV offers. I'm sure they like their money too but doesn't seem like it's an obvious choice. So when the 0.0001% level wealthy choose to be 0.000001% uber wealthy, the trade-off does magnify moral delinquency. Now that his (BDC) pockets are grotesquely overflowing with blood money, he wants be a national treasure. What a phony. Eff him.

[Vinsk]

14 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Now that his (BDC) pockets are grotesquely overflowing with blood money, he wants be a national treasure. What a phony. Eff him.

What these defectors don’t seem to get is their bottom line for going over there:Money. And not money they need for their own/family survival. It’s hardly a comparison when countries have to unfortunately deal with international business among morality deficient governments for commodities each need. 
 

Many of these guys, BDC, Koepka, Mickelson, etc. did not make this move to keep afloat. Needing fuel for our daily lives, plastics, etc. are just a necessity in every household. These guys just liked the money. Period. So to expect people to turn the other way and admire their bs claims of ‘better schedule, growing the game…’ is just asinine. Awww…you have to play more golf on the PGAT? You’re exhausted from all the private jet trips?  Yeah..that’s a tough life for sure. 
 

 

[Zeph]

Phil might be needing it to fuel his gambling.

[Vinsk]

8 minutes ago, Zeph said:

Phil might be needing it to fuel his gambling.

I doubt he was in any financial hardship. I do however believe he’s pretty pissed he wasted so much on it and LIV basically gave him his losses back that he knows he wouldn’t earn on the PGAT.

[Vinsk]

Sergio Garcia put on clock, fails to qualify for Open Championship - ESPN

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Sergio Garcia, who was put on the clock for slow play, failed to qualify for the Open Championship for the...

Garcia was caught on video complaining to R&A rules officials after being put on the clock, saying he was being slowed down by fans on the property.

 

Something Garcia certainly isn’t used to from playing on LIV GOLF.

[iacas]

Phil Mickelson laments short game, mulls LIV's future in candid remarks

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Phil Mickelson addressed his future, LIV's future and golf's future in a wide-ranging call — and admitted frustration with his short game.

I do think we have probably understated Phil's "help" in closing some deals for the PGA Tour, but I also think that many of those deals benefited him as well.

I also don't know that they've done much at LIV to actually grow the golf audience so much as fracture it. I'd love to know the actual data on that.

I think Good Good and Dude Perfect have done 10x more to grow golf's audience with younger people than LIV.

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

I think Good Good and Dude Perfect have done 10x more to grow golf's audience with younger people than LIV.

Really good opinion and I agree with this. Hell Grant Horvat alone has almost 1M subs now. I think Phil is pretty much like Norman in that this whole ‘grow the game’ is just a front for their real intention which is personal financial gain. 

[iacas]

[ChetlovesMer]

On 6/27/2024 at 10:33 AM, GolfLug said:

Now that his (BDC) pockets are grotesquely overflowing with blood money, he wants be a national treasure. What a phony. Eff him.

Hmmm... Okay, I have on numerous occasions on this forum stated in no uncertain terms that I don't watch anything from the LIV tour. I don't support it in any form that I know of. I'm totally and completely against its existence. 

Having said that, I'm going to kind of defend Bryson. I really don't think he's a phony. 

I'm going to suggest that he's a really immature guy who sometimes makes bad decisions and often doesn't understand the optics of what he's doing. Yet he wants to be liked. He has kind of shown this time and time again. Some obvious examples; When he berated the camera guy for just doing his job. When he walked off the driving range to lean against the wall and cry. When he actually tried to defend his taking two minutes, forty seconds to miss a putt. When he totally through Cobra under the bus after having a bad day with his driver. These were all bad decisions, that were handled in a very immature way and showed that he doesn't understand the optics of his actions. 

So I wouldn't call him a phony. If anything I'd say he's the opposite of a phony. He is what he is and he's pretty consistent in being a guy who is immature, makes some bad decisions, doesn't understand the optics of his actions, yet wants to be liked. 

[ChetlovesMer]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't know how to feel about this. 

On the one hand, I lost friends in 9/11. I don't feel like there's really been any closure. 

On the other hand, my grandmother hated Japanese people until the day she died because of Pearl Harbor. ... I remember thinking Grandma that's a bigger burden on you then on them. 

On the other hand, as a Christian I'm taught to forgive. 

On the other hand, although I'm taught to forgive, I'm also taught not to forget. 

On the other hand, trust is built in drops and lost in buckets. There's been a lot of buckets, very very few drops. 

On the other hand, if we refuse to work with certain people how will we ever achieve peace and understanding?

On the other hand, perhaps today wasn't the best day on which to begin the talks. ... or perhaps today IS the best day to begin the talks?

I know a lot of people feel very strongly one way or the other, and believe me I get it. As I get older I'm starting to realize not everything is as black and white as social media wants us to think it is. 

[GolfLug]

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Hmmm... Okay, I have on numerous occasions on this forum stated in no uncertain terms that I don't watch anything from the LIV tour. I don't support it in any form that I know of. I'm totally and completely against its existence. 

Having said that, I'm going to kind of defend Bryson. I really don't think he's a phony. 

I'm going to suggest that he's a really immature guy who sometimes makes bad decisions and often doesn't understand the optics of what he's doing. Yet he wants to be liked. He has kind of shown this time and time again. Some obvious examples; When he berated the camera guy for just doing his job. When he walked off the driving range to lean against the wall and cry. When he actually tried to defend his taking two minutes, forty seconds to miss a putt. When he totally through Cobra under the bus after having a bad day with his driver. These were all bad decisions, that were handled in a very immature way and showed that he doesn't understand the optics of his actions. 

So I wouldn't call him a phony. If anything I'd say he's the opposite of a phony. He is what he is and he's pretty consistent in being a guy who is immature, makes some bad decisions, doesn't understand the optics of his actions, yet wants to be liked. 

Appreciate the thoughts. I will admit that my stance towards BDC has softened since June, but I wouldn't be so hasty to forgive him joining LIV or in simpler terms being openly in bed with Saudi supported anything when there are very very healthy/wealthy options. That's not something that can be chalked up to immaturity. I am sure he has a very mature advisory team helping him anyway. Making bad decisions is one thing, acting like it is not and expecting the nation to ignore and accept him as a national treasure is another. If it's not phony then it is certainly tone deaf in the least. The dude is 30 years old.

I do enjoys his you tube videos and yes it is hard to miss what seems to be a genuine love of the game in it's purity. He def lives and dies with every putt that he makes or misses in the breaking 50 series for an elite golfer who we would expect to not give a hoot about a putt that has no consequence except for bragging rights that only a college kid would care about. Fun for sure, but that's about it.

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I have on numerous occasions on this forum stated in no uncertain terms that I don't watch anything from the LIV tour. I don't support it in any form that I know of. I'm totally and completely against its existence. 

Right. The larger and much much darker cloud remains squarely on top of him in my book.

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

On the one hand, I lost friends in 9/11. I don't feel like there's really been any closure. 

On the other hand, my grandmother hated Japanese people until the day she died because of Pearl Harbor. ... I remember thinking Grandma that's a bigger burden on you then on them. 

The Japanese have left this behind them decades ago. Forgiveness is deserved. The Saudis have not though. There is not ownership/mea-culpa. There is not closure for a good reason.

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

On the other hand, as a Christian I'm taught to forgive. 

On the other hand, although I'm taught to forgive,

Sure. We are not there yet though. Peace making/forgiveness requires fundamental corrections to build on.

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

As I get older I'm starting to realize not everything is as black and white as social media wants us to think it is. 

Chet, in general, yes, I agree with you but what has social media tried to make us believe (Saudis? LIV? or something else related to this) that you think we should question here?          

Edited September 11 by GolfLug

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

On the one hand, I lost friends in 9/11. I don't feel like there's really been any closure. 

Closure only comes to people who decide to not be affected by a past event anymore. It has very little to do with revenge, justice, etc... Many people who see a killer put to death, still do not feel closure, because they still have to go back home to a place where their loved one is not around anymore. 

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

On the other hand, if we refuse to work with certain people how will we ever achieve peace and understanding?

A misconception when dealing with people who never want peace. There are extreme fundamentalists over the middle east that believe any peace is always temporary until they can wage their holy war again. To believe we can reason with such people is a folly of western civilization thinking. It is tough to identify such people when they seem to be amicable.

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

On the other hand, perhaps today wasn't the best day on which to begin the talks. ... or perhaps today IS the best day to begin the talks?

It is hard to say. I can 100% believe, if the Saudi's picked this day, it was done on purpose. If the PGA Tour picked this day, then their lack of realization just is another drop in the bucket for their idiocy in this whole fiasco. 

I do not think there is any way to spin picking this day as a good thing. 

26 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

The Japanese have left this behind them decades ago. Forgiveness is deserved. The Saudis have not though. There is not ownership/mea-culpa. There is not closure for a good reason.

Most of the people associated with WWII are dead to. Future generations have no association with it. Also, Japan paid reparations after WWII. They apologized over the years for WWII. 

The Saudis will never admit they did anything wrong or engage in meaningful remorse over any involvement in terrorist acts.