LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Elmer]

35 minutes ago, iacas said:

Second, live has four or five really good players and the rest are trash.

iacas knows way more about this than I do.
But I just want to point out that 2 things:

1- the LIV business model was to over pay trash player. No wonder their TV matches were unwatchable and business model unsustainable

2-Imagine being trash and getting paid all that much $? That has to inflate their ego a bit. Even if these players return to the PGA, they are going to slide out of the top 50 an on to the local put-put tour.

[Moxley]

What a day! the PGA finally sees sense and lays down their arms, and at last we can look forward to seeing all the best players play together again. 

Credit to Greg, Phil etc for resolve in and willingness to fight for something better in the face of such opposition.

[ChetlovesMer]

2 minutes ago, Moxley said:

Credit to Greg, Phil etc for resolve in and willingness to fight for something better in the face of such opposition.

Okay, before you go blowing smoke up Phil and Greg's collective asses. 
Remember that Phil has, by his own admission, gambled away roughly $900,000,000.00 USD. (I know I went to Ch!cago PubIic Sch00ls but that's not a type-o.) Phil has stated that he has gambled away roughly 900 million. 

Also, remember that Greg has been pissed at the PGA for decades.... mostly because he's a douchebag. 

Neither gentleman did anything noble here. They just took big fat pay-checks. One because he needs the money, the other because he's a douchebag. 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, ChetlovesMer said:

been pissed at the PGA for

PGA TOUR.

FFS.

[ChetlovesMer]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

PGA TOUR.

FFS.

I humbly stand corrected. 
I actually know the difference. 
My bad. 

[Moxley]

8 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Okay, before you go blowing smoke up Phil and Greg's collective asses. 
Remember that Phil has, by his own admission, gambled away roughly $900,000,000.00 USD. (I know I went to Ch!cago PubIic Sch00ls but that's not a type-o.) Phil has stated that he has gambled away roughly 900 million. 

Also, remember that Greg has been pissed at the PGA for decades.... mostly because he's a douchebag. 

Neither gentleman did anything noble here. They just took big fat pay-checks. One because he needs the money, the other because he's a douchebag. 

 

Nobody is perfect, and I take your point. However, they are not without merit either, and their work will improve golf for a long time to come.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I humbly stand corrected. 
I actually know the difference. 
My bad. 

It’s not just you.

I’m more sensitive to it as a PGA member.

[JetFan1983]

 

[GolfSwami]

On 6/14/2022 at 9:00 PM, GolfSwami said:

The PGA Tour is a monopoly that exists in part because of special tax privileges. Monopoly and tax status are both likely to get challenged in all of this.  Competition is what protects workers. Most  are focusing  on the big names but the lower and mid tier players are likely going to see a big benefit.  Golf is very hard to crack into. It is expensive and difficult to get through Q school and most guys don't keep their card once on tour.   This might push the PGA Tour toward more guaranteed money which will give more marginal players a financial cushion. The 125th guy on the money list made right a  million last year, which after taxes, caddie and travel is okay but certainly not great for how tenuous that position is. That person could be on lesser tours pretty quickly. And the 200th player made $156,000 which is pretty subsistence even with sponsors and pro-am money. 

As far as the Saudis, I see this as a moral good.  Trade makes it so people who otherwise might hate each other find ways to coexist because it is in their mutual self interest. Countries that are economically interdependent tend not to attack each other. Saudi Arabia is closed off to much of the world. A benefit with sports and entertainment is there might be some (small) influence on the culture. 

From last last June. The single most astute observation in the history of this site.

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by GolfSwami

[Darkfrog]

43 minutes ago, Moxley said:

Credit to Greg, Phil etc for resolve in and willingness to fight for something better in the face of such opposition.

I don't believe Greg or Phil had anything to do with the deal Jay Monahan made with the PIF.

[jxdama]

2 hours ago, Killa said:

Exactly. I mean the USA does like a gazillion billion dollars of trade with SA, especially weapons and nobody bats an eye. But everyone is "disgusted" by the money when they pay for golf 🤣

 

Yea, the  moral outrage  is  laughable. And crying for the  "poor" pga  players. Rory and  thomas arent exactly begging for food  on the street  corner.

[saevel25]

17 minutes ago, jxdama said:

Yea, the  moral outrage  is  laughable. And crying for the  "poor" pga  players. Rory and  thomas arent exactly begging for food  on the street  corner.

that is a twisted point of view.

[Beastie]

Do Monahan, and Pelly have the authority on their respective tours to make this deal. Do the players have to ratify it? 

22 minutes ago, jxdama said:

Yea, the  moral outrage  is  laughable. And crying for the  "poor" pga  players. Rory and  thomas arent exactly begging for food  on the street  corner.

Rory and JT both stuck with the PGA tour and turned down huge amounts of money. Neither pled poverty. Rory very publicly turned down hundreds of millions of dollars because he didn’t agree with Liv golf’s morals and structure. He went out to bat for the PGA tour management and they have shafted him in a most underhand way. 

[TourSpoon]

Norman gets a W for his realization of a world tour that he has been pushing for 30 years. Going forward, he is not the solution (divider not uniter) by any means so now he gets to fade away (pun intended). 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

The PIF can increase their investment stake. Outside organizations and even the PGA/Euro Tours cannot do the same without approval from the PIF due to the first right of refusal. They’re a sponsor, yes, but one that explicitly reserves all rights to expand their financial stake and block other investors in the arrangement as it’s been laid out so far to the public.

I don't think you know what the terms are. To me sponsor is not the same as owner. I've had sponsors here at TST with the first right of refusal… they don't "increase their investment stake" by choosing to spend more or decrease it by spending less: they're not owners.

More specifics are needed.

Separately, PGA TOUR Inc. will remain in place as a 501(c)(6) tax exempt organization and retains administrative oversight of events for those assets contributed by the PGA TOUR, including the sanctioning of events, the administration of the competition and rules, as well as all other “inside the ropes” responsibilities, with Jay Monahan as Commissioner and Ed Herlihy as PGA TOUR Policy Board Chairman. PIF’s Governor Yasir Al-Rumayyan will join the PGA TOUR Policy Board. The DP World Tour and LIV Golf will retain similar administrative oversight of events on their respective Tours.

The Board of Directors of the new commercial entity will include Al-Rumayyan as Chairman and Monahan as Chief Executive Officer; the new entity’s Board will also include an Executive Committee comprising Al-Rumayyan, Monahan, Herlihy and PGA TOUR Policy Board member Jimmy Dunne. The full Board will be announced at a later date, and it is anticipated that all three founding members will have representation.

49 minutes ago, jxdama said:

Yea, the  moral outrage  is  laughable.

No, it isn't. Have you ever made a good point here that's not easily refuted by a halfway intelligent ten-year-old?

49 minutes ago, jxdama said:

And crying for the  "poor" pga  players

I don't see anyone doing that.

And they're PGA Tour players. The next people that get that wrong will be given a 20-point warning or something.

[WillieT]

Reading the discussion I am reminded of the conversations a good friend and I used to have regarding perspective.  He would set a glass in between us and ask the question “Can you see the entire glass?”  The obvious answer is no, as we cannot see in 360.  He would go on to say, that is why multiple views are necessary to get the entire view.  PGA, LIV, Euro/DP tours have their views of the same glass - professional golf.  We can only guess what each’s view really is. Our views are limited at best.  

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, jxdama said:

Yea, the  moral outrage  is  laughable. And crying for the  "poor" pga  players. Rory and  thomas arent exactly begging for food  on the street  corner.

It's a crippling stab in the back dude. WTH. 

Regardless of reason, whether this was a way out of a legal rabbit hole or maybe they had dirt on Monahan or pure greed or whatever, the pivot is stunning. 

The statements from the 'leadership' about how this is for the greater good feels like salt rubbed into wounds. 

Welp, let's see what unfolds. I think Monahan is a loser that we suspect he is and there is not a meticulous master plan. Just a half ass cobbled up bluster of bullet points 

One thing I'm not getting is how this can happen in vacuum without a vote from the players. From reports they are just as shocked as the common fan.

Wow.

[iacas]