LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[iacas]

I think that…

• The lawsuits were costing the PGA Tour a TON of money. It may have cost them hundreds of millions of dollars.
• The lawsuits were costing the PIF and Saudi Arabia discovery. That wouldn't have gone well for them.
• I think that the LIV as a league is done. Maybe there will be some sort of team thing… but I think LIV is done as we know it.
• I think Phil Mickelson was still wrong about so much, but that won't stop him from pretending that he wasn't. He's also back under Jay Monahan's thumb, if he's allowed back at all. Maybe he'll just play the majors and peace out, though.
• I think that Jay was having a hard time selling the sponsors on paying twice as much… and getting… what, exactly?
• I think that at the end of the day the PGA Tour got a huge cash infusion.
• I think the PGA Tour retains most of the decision-making control.
• Someone said something like "If Jimmy Dunne is okay with this, who are we to be annoyed about it" and while I disagree strongly with that (Jimmy was put in a position of power and likely gets some $ as well, which he doesn't need, so it's not like he's doing this out of the goodness of his heart - the fans are getting nothing here except a less fractured pro golf world), I kinda get the sentiment. But then I go right back to "yeah, but he's benefitting here."
• I'm annoyed at how many of these guys are talking as if PRO GOLF = "golf". It's f***ing not. You didn't do anything for "the game" today. You aren't in charge of "the game" of golf. You play it as a sport at a professional level. That's it.

In other words, I think Jay probably did what he had to do here.

• A year or two years ago, they didn't have these lawsuits gobbling up $500k/day in legal fees.
• A year or two years ago, LIV thought they might still be able to run a league. Suck away all the best players.

From both sides, things have changed a lot in two years.

[Elmer]

 

I think if you are going to take money form anyone you need to have a better response than "look I am just a golfer".

 

[JetFan1983]

14 minutes ago, Zeph said:

Rory’s on board then.

Was the game of professional golf in financial distress today or were the outlooks that it would be in the near future?

I think the PGAT was between a rock and a hard place. Either take this money and give us a seat at the table or we slowly bleed you to death because we can. In five, ten years, you're insolvent and we take over completely. So which pill do you take?

 

[TourSpoon]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm annoyed at how many of these guys are talking as if PRO GOLF = "golf". It's f***ing not. You didn't do anything for "the game" today. You aren't in charge of "the game" of golf. You play it as a sport at a professional level. That's it.

I agree. Nothing really changes for the 99.9% of us that play this game. The USGA and R&A are still the governing bodies, The Master's is still The Master's, and my upcoming golf trip will occur without too much fanfare (even if we are playing Orange County National that happened to host a LIV event). 

[PatrickMurtha]

“Money! That was the answer to every riddle!” - Honoré de Balzac, Lost Illusions

[Rick Graham]

3 hours ago, klineka said:

So you think the fact that the commissioner of the PGA Tour (allegedly a player run organization) made a complete 180 and joined forces with the very people he spent the last year openly and harshly criticizing while not notifying any players that this was going to happen is "great news"?

Why do you feel good for Greg Norman? He wasn't notified of this until after a deal was already signed. He's clearly not a decision maker.

Greg Norman has been pushing this since the early 90s.  Norman started this idea long ago and has been chastised for a long time-'he wins, fans win!

[klineka]

1 hour ago, Elmer said:

 

I think if you are going to take money form anyone you need to have a better response than "look I am just a golfer".

Why does anyone need a better response than that? Just because I or you or a lot of people disagree with their decision doesn't mean they owe us an explanation.

Would it be better if they said " I want to be filthy stinkin rich I don't give a crap where the money came from"? 

That wouldn't change my thoughts on any of them really. 

1 hour ago, Rick Graham said:

Greg Norman has been pushing this since the early 90s.  Norman started this idea long ago and has been chastised for a long time-'he wins, fans win!

That doesn't answer my question of why you think that the fact that commissioner of the PGA tour, allegedly a player run organization, completely did a 180 on his stance and joined forces with the very people he spent the last year talking bad about (who have direct ties to terrorist attacks, severe human rights violations, etc) is "great news" 

[DeadMan]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

I think the PGA Tour retains most of the decision-making control.

I agree with everything in your post, but I think this should say "for now." If the PIF pumps in $5 billion initially and the PGA Tour comes back in 2 years asking for more, they're not just getting that money for nothing in return.

And yes, I will keep making this point over and over. 

[Elmer]

37 minutes ago, klineka said:

Why does anyone need a better response than that? Just because I or you or a lot of people disagree with their decision doesn't mean they owe us an explanation.

Would it be better if they said " I want to be filthy stinkin rich I don't give a crap where the money came from"? 

That wouldn't change my thoughts on any of them really. 

Not only is he a professional golfer, but a professional golfer who volunteered to do a TV interview.
If you are putting yourself in that position to be interviewed and asked about 9/11, jamal khashoggi and the money you took from the SA, you cant just say "hey I am just a golfer".

What kind of questions did he expect on a news network, questions about chipping out of a bunker?

And yes I would rather hear " I want to be filthy stinkin rich I don't give a crap where the money came from"

Instead of "I am sorry for the loss of those on 9/11, but SA is working real hard to bring us all together by growing the game of golf, but then again I am just a golfer so what do I know"

[Rick Graham]

I dont care why monahan did 180, all i know is i agree with Norman, lets get the worlds best playing against each other on an elite world tour

[Elmer]

13 minutes ago, Rick Graham said:

I dont care why monahan did 180, all i know is i agree with Norman, lets get the worlds best playing against each other on an elite world tour

Didn't we have that before, and bunch of the best went to grow the game by playing less golf against trash players?

[GolfLug]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

And I'm saying that they don't just get to do that whenever they want. They can be asked to increase their investment, and get the first right of refusal should the new entity want/need/seek more capital.

Furthermore, that doesn't necessarily increase their ownership stake.

Correct. An owner can force an action like tear down the building or fire the staff or whatever, but an investor (even if majority) can only threaten to pull or actually pull funding as the most severe action, at which point the owner can seek another investor. There is a significant difference. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by GolfLug

[Hardluckster]

6 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Broker a truce does not mean knowledge of merger. That article clearly lacks statements or other facts to say that Rory knew of the merger. 

Rory knew that talks were occurring, by his own admission. You are correct though in that this article, nor others that I have read, give specific facts to show that he knew of the merger/acquisition. I would guess that he (along with a select few other players) was privy to that knowledge but I don’t know that. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Rick Graham said:

Greg Norman has been pushing this since the early 90s.  Norman started this idea long ago and has been chastised for a long time-'he wins, fans win!

No, man. It’s still not a world tour. It’s still the PGA Tour and the DPWT. And the Korn Ferry Tour.

Norman is a loser today. He didn’t even find out before the rest of the world did.

[GolfLug]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

Norman is a loser today. He didn’t even find out before the rest of the world did.

If I were Norman, I would wonder if I am about to be unemployed. 

[mdl]

This is such a bummer. The Saudis won. They own all pro golf now. The whole investor/owner distinction is BS. The money gets to make the calls at the end of the day. I wish Rory and Tiger would go start a player-owned tour. Let the PGA be LIV: a few greedy top 20 guys, some has-beens, and a bunch of minor leaguers.

[jbishop15]

Rory's comments are such a bummer, and such unbelievable spin. As a "golf league" it wasn't that interesting or noteworthy -- a bunch of guys took a golden parachute into retirement golf. The issue is that the Saudi's were the only source of funding, which meant getting into bed with their vile politicians. Rory knows that, or at least I hope he does. Though, I guess, it's worse -- knowing better and still doing the wrong thing. 

I hate this so much. 

[chspeed]

1 hour ago, DeadMan said:

I agree with everything in your post, but I think this should say "for now." If the PIF pumps in $5 billion initially and the PGA Tour comes back in 2 years asking for more, they're not just getting that money for nothing in return.

And yes, I will keep making this point over and over. 

Right. Private equity deals are filled with endless terms related to additional investments, changes of control scenarios, etc. I don't think the entire deal terms are public yet, and I'm not sure they'll ever be. We don't even know if they've worked out all those details yet.