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General COVID-19 Topic

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7 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Cases actually went down when things opened back up in mid/late May despite more testing. Cases began to go back up in mid-June which many people assign to the hoards of people protesting and anti-protesting.

You got to consider that there can be up to a 14 day delay before someone see symptoms. So, it makes sense that the numbers started to spike a few weeks after opening things back up. It also could be more testing. 

You can see this in the daily cases going up, but the hospitalizations not staying consistent with values and the deaths still decreasing. Lots more people not having symptoms and more testing showing less severe symptoms. 

There is also a take that if this was man made or modified in a lab, then the severity of the virus tends to decrease over time versus a virus that was actually transmitted from animal to human. I remember hearing this from evolutionary biologist who talk to some virologists about how strange this virus has been. 

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11 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

You can't even go into a bank now, so...

Not true. I went to the bank the other day with a massive and well-earned deposit. ... I did have to wear the dreaded mask.

 

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18 minutes ago, nicolas wieder said:

I noticed it in looking at some of your other posts. Always quick to shut someone down, even when there is an opening to possibly leaning in and expressing some true curiosity and inquiry. Feel free to remove me from your website. 

It's called discussion. Shutting down someone would be removing their posts or banning them. This site does really well at allowing open debate as long as it doesn't get political or personal.

2 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

You got to consider that there can be up to a 14 day delay before someone see symptoms. So, it makes sense that the numbers started to spike a few weeks after opening things back up. It also could be more testing. 

You can see this in the daily cases going up, but the hospitalizations not staying consistent with values and the deaths still decreasing. Lots more people not having symptoms and more testing showing less severe symptoms. 

There is also a take that if this was man made or modified in a lab, then the severity of the virus tends to decrease over time versus a virus that was actually transmitted from animal to human. I remember hearing this from evolutionary biologist who talk to some virologists about how strange this virus has been. 

I factored that in. Cases continued to decline for almost a month after opening, but really started to skyrocket 2-3 weeks after the protests in late May/Early June. Seems to be a decent correlation to me. When I was watching protests on TV with people packed together yelling an screaming, I thought at the time there was going to be a spike in cases. Again, the fact that death rate continues to drop in Ohio and nationwide is a really good sign IMO.

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14 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Not true. I went to the bank the other day with a massive and well-earned deposit. ... I did have to wear the dreaded mask.

Now you have money for a cart. 😉

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37 minutes ago, nicolas wieder said:

Imagine a 35 handicap golfer coming to you and only arguing with you about what are the most basic golf fundamentals. That's what you sound like when you discuss scientific matters. 

If you are insinuating that @iacas’s level of science education is equivalent to a 35hcp golfer you are grossly mistaken. He hasn’t torn down anything you posted nor anyone else’s posts. It’s a discussion and just as you have he has posted facts and opinion to consider. Your word isn’t gold. You’re far from being any authority on Covid. Your ideas and opinions ...along with facts are just as welcomed as anyone’s. Just don’t get all worked up if people don’t embrace your Google searching regurgitate.

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5 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

It's called discussion. Shutting down someone would be removing their posts or banning them. This site does really well at allowing open debate as long as it doesn't get political or personal.

I stand corrected. I exaggerate when I said 'shutting down'. I should have said that the responses when they didn't align with certain opinions or were considered to be challenging a previously strongly held opinion became personal. That would have been more accurate. My goal is not to be Dr Fauci. he's a once in a generation type of person. like tiger. I see a lot of confusion about data and COVID.I love golf and when i play, golfers seem particularly awkward about what to do. My hope is that if the information is out there it will be less scary and people can make their own decisions. But to challenge well known and agreed to data each and every time without providing any actual information speaks more and more to a personal attack then concern about others and disseminating info. it smacks more of a being an advocate than true inquiry. it's a disservice to people who really want an open discussion. 

for instance the recent comment about test data not helping if they are double and triple counting. the only source for this is political conspiracy theory; taking one bit of information and create doubt without offering anything else worthwhile.  One only has to do a search or inform yourself on a website to understand how data is actually aggregated. Its never perfect as this is a moving target. But when you use inaccurate information to 'shut down' a thread of discussion that is to me 'shutting it down' though I understand how that may have been unclear. 

Coronavirus-Testing-768x402.png

No country knows the total number of people infected with COVID-19. All we know is the infection status of those who have been tested. All those who have a lab-confirmed infection are counted as confirmed cases.

 

 

Just now, Vinsk said:

If you are insinuating that @iacas’s level of science education is equivalent to a 35hcp golfer you are grossly mistaken. He hasn’t torn down anything you posted nor anyone else’s posts. It’s a discussion and just as you have he has posted facts and opinion to consider. Your word isn’t gold. You’re far from being any authority on Covid. Your ideas and opinions ...along with facts are just as welcomed as anyone’s. Just don’t get all worked up if people don’t embrace your Google searching regurgitate.

?I am not the expert on COVID. Admittedly. If you enjoy the opinions without basis, have at it. Have fun.  I am only giving you google because I assume you wouldn't be interested in the actual studies. Those include research methods and other items that I think would be quite boring. I'm not worked up. I have nothing to prove. And as for your sensitivity about the 35 hcp golfer. Yes in fact it is what it sounds like. in the scientific world opinions are usually based on a solid foundation of facts. so hearing only an opinion is like someone coming off the street and as you describe' regurgitating' CNN/MSNBC/FOX/ etc.. 

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21 minutes ago, nicolas wieder said:

?I am not the expert on COVID. Admittedly. If you enjoy the opinions without basis, have at it. Have fun.  I am only giving you google because I assume you wouldn't be interested in the actual studies.

I’m a physician. I don’t know what your background is but I’ve spent and am still spending considerable time with all things Covid. I’m in daily contact with the CDC, infectious disease specialist and local health departments. I’m hammered with updates and studies from the CDC and other entities that are not available to the public yet if ever. 
So frankly no. I’m not particularly interested in regurgitated Google info. Surely you can understand that.

Edited by Vinsk

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29 minutes ago, nicolas wieder said:

for instance the recent comment about test data not helping if they are double and triple counting.

We are making big decisions based on this data. If things are being double/triple counted, or as some friends have told me, they are counting people who have been "contact traced" as positive even though they have not been tested, then the data is incorrect and misleading. This actually dilutes the mortality rate because it inflates the number of cases that are compared to deaths. Given that the mortality rate is declining, what changed. Better treatment? It's less deadly in the summer? Isn't it more likely that we are counting more COVID cases than there actually are?

As far as masks, I think they are hurting more than helping. People are constantly touching / adjusting their masks. If a person is infected, they are now transferring the virus which is concentrated on their mask to their hands, and then they touch things. The CDC says that you are supposed to wash your hands if you touch your mask. Nobody is doing this. Masks look pretty nasty, so I am guessing that many people are not washing them either. A coworker of my daughter is battling a bacterial infection in her lungs because she wore the same mask and never washed it. People are being told to wear them, but not how to care for them.

Edited by CarlSpackler

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6 hours ago, Vinsk said:

So frankly no. I’m not particularly interested in regurgitated Google info.

My PCP told my wife to stop looking at the internet for medical info a few years back. Smart advice.

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12 hours ago, nicolas wieder said:

Hmmm. The US is not Germany. That's a good one. How right you are. see charts.

Our country does not have the same size or physical reality.

Our people are different. Our privileges are different, our expectations, our tax system, our spirit, our laws, our history, etc.

12 hours ago, nicolas wieder said:

You just don't give up do you. Nothing data worthy to add but your gift is to simply tear down comments people make. It looks from your profile that you are a golf instructor? Imagine a 35 handicap golfer coming to you and only arguing with you about what are the most basic golf fundamentals. That's what you sound like when you discuss scientific matters.  Yes you do have a little knowledge. But you're more interested in something completely different than exchanging ideas or discussing any topic openly. I noticed it in looking at some of your other posts. Always quick to shut someone down, even when there is an opening to possibly leaning in and expressing some true curiosity and inquiry. Feel free to remove me from your website. 

I don't give up? Dude, I'm posting in response to posts YOU keep making.

12 hours ago, nicolas wieder said:

Nothing data worthy to add but your gift is to simply tear down comments people make.

I did no such thing.

I simply said that "percentage of cases positive out of all tests" was a dumb (IMO) way of measuring much of anything, and that if you duplicate positive tests, it can and DOES affect that percentage (which is one of the reasons such a measurement is bad).

12 hours ago, nicolas wieder said:

Imagine a 35 handicap golfer coming to you and only arguing with you about what are the most basic golf fundamentals. That's what you sound like when you discuss scientific matters.

So I'm a 35 handicap scientist?

I have three degrees. I'll grant you that my French degree probably isn't of much use here, but my degree in computer science is at least fractionally relevant… and my degree in medicinal chemistry is pretty relevant.

I'm no 35 handicapper when it comes to science. Which you might discover if you ever talked about actual science.

11 hours ago, nicolas wieder said:

I stand corrected. I exaggerate when I said 'shutting down'. I should have said that the responses when they didn't align with certain opinions or were considered to be challenging a previously strongly held opinion became personal.

And you'd be just as wrong. Where has anything gotten personal, prior to you calling me a "35 handicapper when it comes to science"?

11 hours ago, nicolas wieder said:

But to challenge well known and agreed to data each and every time without providing any actual information speaks more and more to a personal attack then concern about others and disseminating info. it smacks more of a being an advocate than true inquiry. it's a disservice to people who really want an open discussion.

What are you even reading? I don't even know what you're talking about here — I haven't done that.

11 hours ago, nicolas wieder said:

for instance the recent comment about test data not helping if they are double and triple counting. the only source for this is political conspiracy theory; taking one bit of information and create doubt without offering anything else worthwhile. 

I didn't take it as factual — I responded to this:

On 7/8/2020 at 1:32 PM, nicolas wieder said:

the double count your talking about is negligible if it occurs at all. Remember it’s a percentage so would only affect the denominator. Even 50 extra cases in the numerator don’t change the percentage much.

I showed you how 50 extra cases can change the percentage. By the looks of it, you take being shown to be wrong as "personal attacks." Sorry you feel that way. In my experience, a scientist doesn't behave or think that way.

I haven't really cared much about the COVID stuff. I have other things to do, so I'm not going to spend time googling stuff. I didn't say the double-counting stuff was gospel or truth; I simply said that if it was, your statements were silly.

I also said I don't think % positive tests is a good measurement… because I don't. For reasons above and others.

11 hours ago, nicolas wieder said:

But when you use inaccurate information to 'shut down' a thread of

Didn't happen. Heck, you're still posting, and nothing's been done to you.

11 hours ago, nicolas wieder said:

Coronavirus-Testing-768x402.png?I am not the expert on COVID. Admittedly. If you enjoy the opinions without basis, have at it. Have fun.  I am only giving you google because I assume you wouldn't be interested in the actual studies. Those include research methods and other items that I think would be quite boring. I'm not worked up. I have nothing to prove. And as for your sensitivity about the 35 hcp golfer. Yes in fact it is what it sounds like. in the scientific world opinions are usually based on a solid foundation of facts. so hearing only an opinion is like someone coming off the street and as you describe' regurgitating' CNN/MSNBC/FOX/ etc.. 

I don't watch news channels.

You've made a HELL of a lot of assumptions, dude. Not a good look. Post in some other topics - your view is getting a bit myopic, perhaps. That's my suggestion. This is a golf forum first and foremost; no sense getting upset by something outside of golf.

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1 hour ago, CarlSpackler said:

 

Stop trying to shut down the conversation with your personal attacks Shane! You must agree with Nicolas!

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54 minutes ago, iacas said:

Stop trying to shut down the conversation with your personal attacks Shane! You must agree with Nicolas!

You know me? 😁

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6 hours ago, CarlSpackler said:

 

While I agree with much of what this guy is saying (and disagree in some areas based upon what other medical experts are saying), the problem is that Covid keeps overwhelming our medical system. So how does society follow his directions if the virus is going to make medical treatments limited for those in need? Not saying I have solutions, but it's a problem he isn't addressing. Plus he lost a lot of credibility when talking about the malaria drug - he may believe that it works but the data shows over wise. 

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I bought some of the SA Shield things. They had a buy one, get four free. I paid $20 for one, $5 for shipping, and $1.50 for tax. So $26.50 and I have five buffs.

They're fairly breathable, but obviously should still be trapping moisture. My current masks are THICK. Nothing comes out of them, which kinda stinks. And I sound funny when I talk, muted and mutated.

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

I bought some of the SA Shield things. They had a buy one, get four free. I paid $20 for one, $5 for shipping, and $1.50 for tax. So $26.50 and I have five buffs.

They're fairly breathable, but obviously should still be trapping moisture. My current masks are THICK. Nothing comes out of them, which kinda stinks. And I sound funny when I talk, muted and mutated.

The gaiter-style ones?  I bought a handful of them at a rave supply store not too far from me back in March, and it's pretty much what I've been using as a facial covering since then.  Even after the pandemic is over, I might keep one in my golf bag to wear during sand shots.

I have a few KN-95 (I think? that's the term.  Maybe I have something else) in case I need to go into somewhere crowded, but I haven't used them yet. 

The rave masks I have are cloth but washable, they work well for the usual uses but when I'm playing golf, I'll wander away from the group and remove mine for a few minutes when I can.  They're pretty much gaiter ones. 

I recently ordered more gaiter-style from woot (polyester spandex, but they haven't come in yet so I can't compare them).  Still... five for $26.50 is such a good deal I might consider getting another few.  

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