How Would You Play This Hole (from LSW Twitter)?

[WillieT]

Playing from the middle tees @ 344.  I don't bomb the driver and good days for me are in the 200-210 range on carry with same.  If I did my math correct, that should have the ball landing zone just beside or past the left fairway bunker using the driver.  I typically have a slight fade on my drives so that should work out well if I use the bunker as the long range alignment point knowing the ball will fade away from the hazard.  From there it should be either a wedge or short iron to the middle front of the green, again playing to stay away from the long bunker guarding the right side. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by WillieT

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

My old eyes can’t see how high the trees are on the left fro the drawing, but the 344 tee is +10 higher

Classic Scott......lol.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, WillieT said:

If I did my math correct, that should have the ball landing zone just beside or past the left fairway bunker using the driver.

I’ve got the left fairway bunker at 180-215yd from the 344yd tee.

[gbogey]

Not sure what tees I would play without seeing the rest of the course, but I'm aiming at the left side of the right bunker.  From 363 I don't think I can reach with driver and from 344 my FW should also come up short.  Most likely I would have a PW-8i in.  Regardless, even poorly struck balls should be within 150 of the green which means 7i or less and that's where I have pretty high confidence and hit rate of hitting the green.

[WillieT]

45 minutes ago, billchao said:

I’ve got the left fairway bunker at 180-215yd from the 344yd tee.

Thanks @billchao - I really misread that one as I was eyeballing the scale.  Scaling it out with a ruler, I came to pretty much the same distance on the left fairway bunker.  My landing zone would be along side it instead of past.  In that case, given the distances I currently hit on iron/wedges, I am pretty sure wedges are out.  My math shows the "straight line" distance to the front center of the green to be about 125yds.  This means I would be going the short iron route - maybe 8i or 9i given the current distances I am hitting. 

[iacas]

12 hours ago, DeadMan said:

Is it just me, or this is a stupid hole? The fairway is so wide past the left bunker.

I think you'll find that a lot of holes that were previously thought to have "strategy" and thus were "good holes" because of that don't really have any real strategy anymore, given what we now know about scoring in golf.

[Bonvivant]

4 hours ago, billchao said:

It’s about 215yd from your tee box.

Sticking with less than driver then. 

[pganapathy]

We would most likely wind up playing the 363 tees, though the 344 is also a possibility.  Either one and my goal is hit the driver about 250 carry.  Get it there over the bunker ideally and then wind up around a 100 in with a PW.  Most importantly pick a line that gives me the easiest shot in.  The more left I am the easier it is to run the ball up to the green if necessary.  Right means you have to fly the bunker.  Not that it is a problem at a 100 yards, but options are always better.  Goal is hit the middle of the green in regulation and hopefully take a safe two-putt.  Making the birdie putt would be a bonus

[klineka]

23 hours ago, billchao said:

My target is almost at the right end of my shot zone oval so I can safely aim at the right edge of the fairway or left edge of the right hand bunker if it's easier to see visually

I'm a bit confused, I don't think I fully understand how the relationship between target and shot zone is supposed to work (In general, not just in this scenario). I thought the target was supposed to be one that would allow your ball (on a perfectly hit shot for your shot shape) to finish in the center of your shot zone.

Based on your target being right edge of the fairway/left edge of the right hand bunker (which looks to be ~10 yds wide), does that mean your drives almost never go right of your target? Because based on that target, a drive that does leaks right at all (or even is dead straight) is in the dunes assuming it carried the right bunker.

Is there a reason you wouldn't aim at the middle/right edge of the left bunker, which would still give you plenty of room to the left, plus more room to the right as well?

[billchao]

2 minutes ago, klineka said:

I'm a bit confused, I don't think I fully understand how the relationship between target and shot zone is supposed to work (In general, not just in this scenario). I thought the target was supposed to be one that would allow your ball (on a perfectly hit shot for your shot shape) to finish in the center of your shot zone.

I might be using the word target incorrectly. I mean it as the spot I’m aiming at. Target might mean exactly what you’re saying it does, in which case I’d be aiming well right of my target.

6 minutes ago, klineka said:

Based on your target being right edge of the fairway/left edge of the right hand bunker (which looks to be ~10 yds wide), does that mean your drives almost never go right of your target? Because based on that target, a drive that does leaks right at all (or even is dead straight) is in the dunes assuming it carried the right bunker.

I haven’t been able to play with my new driver, but based on what I remember from my fitting and the one session I hit on Trackman, I don’t really hit the ball right of my target. Maybe I should aim 10 yards farther left in case I hit my line or something, but I’m not going to play for a right miss.

In fact I really can’t, because in the past when I’ve missed right, it’s like 40 yards right. It’s a miss that can’t really be planned for.

15 minutes ago, klineka said:

Is there a reason you wouldn't aim at the middle/right edge of the left bunker, which would still give you plenty of room to the left, plus more room to the right as well?

Because I don’t hit the ball straight? I hope I explained well enough, above.

[klineka]

20 minutes ago, billchao said:

I haven’t been able to play with my new driver, but based on what I remember from my fitting and the one session I hit on Trackman, I don’t really hit the ball right of my target. Maybe I should aim 10 yards farther left in case I hit my line or something, but I’m not going to play for a right miss.

Ah ok that makes sense. I must say, I'm jealous. I'd love to only miss one way with driver. 

I would most likely be playing the one up tees, so I would aim at the left edge of the left bunker. That would give me room to miss left and right, which would fit my roughly 60-70 yard shot zone

Edited April 19, 2020 by klineka

[billchao]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Ah ok that makes sense. I must say, I'm jealous. I'd love to only miss one way with driver. 

I would most likely be playing the one up tees, so I would aim at the left edge of the left bunker. That would give me room to miss left and right, which would fit my roughly 60-70 yard shot zone

To expand a bit on this, here is sample of how I hit my old driver:

So you can see my miss is equidistant left and right of my target line, but my tendency is to draw the ball, which I’ve done here four out of five shots. If I try to aim my shot zone to accommodate this, I’d need an 80yd landing area, but that’s basically unheard of on most holes. If I aim down the center of the fairway, three out of five shots would end up in trouble. So I had gotten used to shifting my aim to the right so that four out of five shots are playable and just accepted that I was always eventually going to hit that push that ends up in oblivion. A perfectly struck shot for me would end up missing the fairway right, which was fine because I was still playing the percentages.

The new driver, though, does this:

Which is a significant improvement in dispersion. I’m hoping this translates to the course, because that’s going to improve my scoring. I’m not going to say I’m won’t hit any pushes, but I’ve hit it on a LM enough times to suggest that the frequency will be reduced.

So back to your original question, yes I’m aiming pretty far right. No, I don’t think that’s a problem 😃

[David in FL]

What that skinny little bastard @billchao doesn’t tell you is that he hits the ball a looooong way!   😑

[saevel25]

@billchao, What is the loft on that driver? 4.5 angle of attack, and only 12 degrees of launch. I feel like you need to add 2-3 degrees if of loft onto that driver. It also will take it out of that sub 2000 rpm range, which can cause the ball to do strange ball flights. It's the reason I dropped the SLDR. I would hit one with sub 1500 and it would just drop out of the air. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by saevel25

[JGus]

From the 344 tee, think I would play a 3-wood up the right side with a draw and play to land with or past the left bunker and hopefully have a wedge into the green.

[billchao]

8 hours ago, saevel25 said:

@billchao, What is the loft on that driver? 4.5 angle of attack, and only 12 degrees of launch. I feel like you need to add 2-3 degrees if of loft onto that driver. It also will take it out of that sub 2000 rpm range, which can cause the ball to do strange ball flights. It's the reason I dropped the SLDR. I would hit one with sub 1500 and it would just drop out of the air. 

It’s 10.5°. I think I’ll get an extra 2° of launch if I simply open the face a little and start the ball farther right. It’s kind of an issue I have with my irons, too, and not something I was thinking about the last time I was on Trackman.

[klineka]

10 hours ago, billchao said:

To expand a bit on this, here is sample of how I hit my old driver:

So you can see my miss is equidistant left and right of my target line, but my tendency is to draw the ball, which I’ve done here four out of five shots. If I try to aim my shot zone to accommodate this, I’d need an 80yd landing area, but that’s basically unheard of on most holes. If I aim down the center of the fairway, three out of five shots would end up in trouble. So I had gotten used to shifting my aim to the right so that four out of five shots are playable and just accepted that I was always eventually going to hit that push that ends up in oblivion. A perfectly struck shot for me would end up missing the fairway right, which was fine because I was still playing the percentages.

The new driver, though, does this:

Which is a significant improvement in dispersion. I’m hoping this translates to the course, because that’s going to improve my scoring. I’m not going to say I’m won’t hit any pushes, but I’ve hit it on a LM enough times to suggest that the frequency will be reduced.

So back to your original question, yes I’m aiming pretty far right. No, I don’t think that’s a problem 😃

Yup that makes total sense now why you would aim at the right edge of your shot zone. 

Once the indoor place I go to opens back up I need to get in there and do my shot zones.

11 hours ago, billchao said:

So you can see my miss is equidistant left and right of my target line, but my tendency is to draw the ball, which I’ve done here four out of five shots. If I try to aim my shot zone to accommodate this, I’d need an 80yd landing area, but that’s basically unheard of on most holes. If I aim down the center of the fairway, three out of five shots would end up in trouble. So I had gotten used to shifting my aim to the right so that four out of five shots are playable and just accepted that I was always eventually going to hit that push that ends up in oblivion. A perfectly struck shot for me would end up missing the fairway right, which was fine because I was still playing the percentages.

This really resonates with me and highlights something I'm not doing. I miss to the right way more than I miss to the left with driver (so far this year in 5 rounds i'm 17.4% left, 32.6% fairway, and 50.0% right) but I still have been aiming for the center of my shot zone because of those couple shots that pull left and then the really rare snap hook left. Since I give myself the penalty buffer even further left of my shot zone, if I aimed at the middle of the left half of my shot zone, I would still have room to the left if I pulled it (most of my pulls are straight pulls with little to no draw), plus it would give me a much greater chance of hitting the fairway with my normal fade, and even some of the bigger slices might only be a couple steps into the rough.

 

9 hours ago, JGus said:

From the 344 tee, think I would play a 3-wood up the right side with a draw and play to land with or past the left bunker and hopefully have a wedge into the green.

Any reason you wouldn't hit driver over the left bunker? Only would be 217 to carry it from the 344 tees, and if your 3 wood could land with or past the bunker shouldn't your driver carry 220+?

[HJJ003]

I would be hitting a 3-wood down the left hand side and play my normal shot shape which should leave me short of where the bunkers pinch in. Would leave me a full wedge or 9 iron in. Likely would play to the back of the green to avoid the trouble in the front. 

 

Playing from 360 yard tees. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by HJJ003