My Problems with George Gankas Instruction

[Phil McGleno]

I have taken some time to write this post. I am trying not to use my usual style and am trying to make it more general and readable and understandable.

As many know George Gankas has risen from mediocrity to achieve sudden fame, booking his $500/hour lessons out to June - though probably not anymore with COVID-19 and California - because Matt Wolff rose to fame and because his Instagram account shows a bunch of already very good players hitting the ball hard. Now of course George has actually been teaching for 25 years and is probably almost the same guy he is now as he was five years ago when he was unknown by most but that is just how golf is.

I am not jealous of George - He is not taking students from me. I do not dislike George either - Though his surfer boy 'EMBH' attitude does rub me the wrong way, he cares about good information and is passionate about making golfers better, so he is okay in my book from that POV.

But I do have some very real issues with his swing philosophy and I will attempt to talk about them here to start a discussion.

My list of complaints - and I will go into more detail later on - is:

1. Does not tuck his shirt in.
2. Wears socks with sandals.
3. EMBH.

I am just kidding - but now seriously. First bear in mind this is from having seen much of Instagram, hearing from things, videos and speaking engagements, podcast interviews, etc. I have watched a LOT of GG content, directly from GG himself, I have not spent weeks watching him teach and some of this might be older or he might not do it as much as he says.

1. A little like Stack-n-Tilt where something that has some value is WAAAY overdone to the point it can become an obstacle. A little goes a long way, and a lot is too much.
2. None of what we are apparently calling 'flow' now with several manual movements in an effort to make it 'reactive' or something.
3. Overdoes rounding of lumbar spine at setup.
4. Trail knee extends too much too soon and hips over rotate on the backswing. You can see some guys with straight trail leg by P2.
5. Hands get too deep too soon. Can cause two big problems (let me see if I can do this right):
   1. Hinders too much left bend. Notice some guys move the head down and forward on takeaway.
   2. Limits mobility with the arms and torso. Arms do not have any room towards the top so arms have to lift and shift outward.
6. IMO b/c of the last couple notes, Gankas has been advising to add in more manual spine extension to finish the backswing. So you have a manual move on top of a manual move to compensate for each other.
7. This extension on the backswing also gets pressure too far forward too soon, players get a 'loaded left' look at P2.5 to P3. If the pressure and mass does not load right it can not 'fall' forward in transition.
8. Body shift and rotation sequence is backwards: George likes upper/lower body to stay back P4 to P6, then open up big time early and then moves lower center forward from P6 to P7 as the hip thrusts forward and up. Elite players tend to do the opposite, upper body is 'closed' in relation to lower body in transition as body shifts forward in order to spike pressure at P5. Most players are mostly done going forward with the body by P5.5 because they are going more up and around.
9. Wants dual external rotation of hips in downswing. Does not happen even though his early Instagram was littered with players practicing this in some sort of hyper-perverted Sam Snead Squat thing. From P3.75 to P4.25, trail hip in good players moves from more internal to less internal (which is movement in the external direction-Yes) but then goes internal to neutral from there. The front hip goes internal on downswing. You can even see some Tour pros plant the front heel more forward than where it was at setup. If it actually went external in the lead hip the golfer would just spin out and have nothing to plant and push against. If you went external there you could not properly engage the muscles up the left side.
10. Trail elbow does not actually go external with many pros at all. Most pros the elbow slightly trails trails the rear hip on the downswing and pros tend to have some trail shoulder retraction early in the transition. By P4.5 pros will not have the forearm 'in front' or more vertical than the torso tilt.
11. George says the arms shifting out shallows the shaft. While it can it can also make the shaft get steeper or do anything else too. You can overcome the pretty weak force that shifting the hands out shallows the shaft very easily. I see people shift the arms out and steepen EVERY damn day on my lesson tee. Plus with GEARS or 3D we know the butt of the club early transition tends to move more vertically down and then moves out. It follows the movement of the body/torso: it lowers 'closed' and then starts opening up. If you have to shift arms out and go ER, how is Rory one of the most shallow players and Noren one of the steepest?
12. Dislike manually feeling more rotation on the downswing by rotating faster and more. I do not have a problem with this in general - Dustin Johnson has to do this, but he is also a freak in a good way. But do not teach it to everyone. Not all great players are super open at impact and those who are, mostly a result of what came before.

Look at Matt Wolff, who does the opposite of many of these things (https://www.instagram.com/p/B73nK0iA2xz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2keCNyqEhQ😞

• Hands track straight back on takeaway to mid backswing. Do not gain super depth.
• Trail hip does not over-rotate. Gets his right hip high and internally rotates into the hip.
• Unweights the lead foot instead of staying centered or left.
• Dual internal rotation of the hips.

Here are some stills.

Hands don't get overly deep:

No real external rotation or outward shifting hands here:

Internal rotated hips, left heel planted forward of where it was at setup:

Some of these photos are https://www.instagram.com/p/BbVfT7NgkH5 and https://www.instagram.com/p/B1peRirlSqM and https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz6xE86FzGs. They will not embed because his account is private right now.

1. A little like Stack-n-Tilt where something that has some value is WAAAY overdone to the point it can become an obstacle. A little goes a long way, and a lot is too much.

I do not have to say too much more about this and I do not have pictures to show it, but an example might be the Sam Snead Squat thing. It is overdone. Other things he does are a good thing that is taken past where it is good and beyond.

2. None of what we are apparently calling 'flow' now with several manual movements in an effort to make it 'reactive' or something.

Countless examples of this. Look at the Matt Wolfe video FO up above. Compare to say Rory or Justin Thomas videos. See the first set of three images below too.

3. Overdoes rounding of lumbar spine at setup.

Look for the hips to be a bit too level and the butt tucked under a bit too much. Not saying you want to have a flat back here and some of the more recent videos and Instagram posts look better.

4. Trail knee extends too much too soon and hips over rotate on the backswing. You can see some guys with straight trail leg by P2.

Can find a ton of those on his Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/p/B_nKvxGjRPymAtMS8EM0ZnRFPt9RRNIMtMPG-E0/ for example.

5. Hands get too deep too soon. Can cause two big problems (let me see if I can do this right):

6. IMO b/c of the last couple notes, Gankas has been advising to add in more manual spine extension to finish the backswing. So you have a manual move on top of a manual move to compensate for each other.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_jRb3QjHPm10S7SxFLnr3BHVfQ8FKlN38ElGw0/

7. This extension on the backswing also gets pressure too far forward too soon, players get a 'loaded left' look at P2.5 to P3. If the pressure and mass does not load right it can not 'fall' forward in transition.

Too many to post. You will see a lot of GG students staying very centered then falling back during the downswing and then finishing forward late. This is similar to 2 but I thought it deserved its own post. Might be the same thing though.

8. Body shift and rotation sequence is backwards: George likes upper/lower body to stay back P4 to P6, then open up big time early and then moves lower center forward from P6 to P7 as the hip thrusts forward and up. Elite players tend to do the opposite, upper body is 'closed' in relation to lower body in transition as body shifts forward in order to spike pressure at P5. Most players are mostly done going forward with the body by P5.5 because they are going more up and around.

Also similar to 2 and 7. Just more detail. You can condense these a bit if you want, but really, 8 is a bit different too because it is not about pressure but about the rotation and the translation and when those are 'primary' in the golf swing.

9. Wants dual external rotation of hips in downswing. Does not happen even though his early Instagram was littered with players practicing this in some sort of hyper-perverted Sam Snead Squat thing. From P3.75 to P4.25, trail hip in good players moves from more internal to less internal (which is movement in the external direction-Yes) but then goes internal to neutral from there. The front hip goes internal on downswing. You can even see some Tour pros plant the front heel more forward than where it was at setup. If it actually went external in the lead hip the golfer would just spin out and have nothing to plant and push against. If you went external there you could not properly engage the muscles up the left side.

So many buckets between the knees especially in early Instagram posts.

10. Trail elbow does not actually go external with many pros at all. Most pros the elbow slightly trails trails the rear hip on the downswing and pros tend to have some trail shoulder retraction early in the transition. By P4.5 pros will not have the forearm 'in front' or more vertical than the torso tilt.

11. George says the arms shifting out shallows the shaft. While it can it can also make the shaft get steeper or do anything else too. You can overcome the pretty weak force that shifting the hands out shallows the shaft very easily. I see people shift the arms out and steepen EVERY damn day on my lesson tee. Plus with GEARS or 3D we know the butt of the club early transition tends to move more vertically down and then moves out. It follows the movement of the body/torso: it lowers 'closed' and then starts opening up. If you have to shift arms out and go ER, how is Rory one of the most shallow players and Noren one of the steepest?

Note the handle actually goes behind him more and close to vertical then and yet Matt shallows the club.

12. Dislike manually feeling more rotation on the downswing by rotating faster and more. I do not have a problem with this in general - Dustin Johnson has to do this, but he is also a freak in a good way. But do not teach it to everyone. Not all great players are super open at impact and those who are, mostly a result of what came before.

Look at other player videos on YouTube.

---

Good things about George:

• Setup: armpits over the top of the knee over the balls of the feet.
• Does not set up like old Adam Scott with straight back.
• Generally better to be neutral or internal with trail elbow on backswing than external.
• Eat the ball cue in transition.

Thank you to certain people behind the scenes in a PM for encouraging me to post this. And to take the time to make it good. I am posting this to have a discussion. I like a lot of what George teaches, but I do take issue with the things I listed up above.

[iacas]

Thank you for posting this.

[Vinsk]

 Very nice analysis @Phil McGleno.

[MiuraMan]

I like your analysis Phil. I have watched George on youtube and find most of his instruction hard to follow.

In any case I have two questions for you; as a novice when it comes to swing analysis could you help me out with understanding the following two items:

"None of what we are apparently calling 'flow' now with several manual movements in an effort to make it 'reactive' or something."  I am not familiar with this concept, could you elaborate on this or point me to a reference so that I may read up on this?

Also you mention positions in the swing (Px.x); is there a good reference that illustrates these positions?

Thank You

[dennyjones]

21 minutes ago, MiuraMan said:

I like your analysis Phil. I have watched George on youtube and find most of his instruction hard to follow.

In any case I have two questions for you; as a novice when it comes to swing analysis could you help me out with understanding the following two items:

"None of what we are apparently calling 'flow' now with several manual movements in an effort to make it 'reactive' or something."  I am not familiar with this concept, could you elaborate on this or point me to a reference so that I may read up on this?

Also you mention positions in the swing (Px.x); is there a good reference that illustrates these positions?

Thank You

The first one is over my head.   I can help with the last one:

Quote

 

 

[mvmac]

2 hours ago, MiuraMan said:

"None of what we are apparently calling 'flow' now with several manual movements in an effort to make it 'reactive' or something."  I am not familiar with this concept, could you elaborate on this or point me to a reference so that I may read up on this?

Check this out

Reactive would be something like what Trevino is doing with his stepping trigger or Henrik Stenson with his trail side shift trigger.

 

 

[Slim_Pivot]

What does EMBH mean? 

I don’t want to type what I think it means, and be wrong 

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Slim_Pivot said:

What does EMBH mean? 

I don’t want to type what I think it means, and be wrong 

It probably means what you think it means. The first word is "eat."

Obviously, that's not part of the critique of the swing philosophy/teachings/etc.

[Slim_Pivot]

Just now, iacas said:

It probably means what you think it means. The first word is "eat."

Obviously, that's not part of the critique of the swing philosophy/teachings/etc.

Ok, it means what I think it means. Seems a little immature, even for a super bro.

But he’s got way more fame and fortune than me, so who am I to judge.

[mvmac]

@Phil McGleno brings up some good points, especially 4 and 11.

On 5/9/2020 at 5:01 AM, Phil McGleno said:

Good things about George:

• Setup: armpits over the top of the knee over the balls of the feet.
• Does not set up like old Adam Scott with straight back.
• Generally better to be neutral or internal with trail elbow on backswing than external.
• Eat the ball cue in transition.

I also think it's good that he plays, seems to be able to play well and works on his swing. Instructors have to be able to relate to what their students are trying to accomplish.

[nevets88]

This is more a tech/business thing, but his website presence was a bit chaotic, some of it is not his fault as he got hacked, but I remember signing up to his site many moons ago and it was confusing figuring out which of the multiple sites out there was his. And also, his current online academy - it's all in for one year instead of month to month. Asking a years worth of tuition up front is a big ask and not what most other instructors ask - most, pretty much all, give you the option to cancel after a month.

The AMG guys made at least a few videos taking note of the hands going down not out from A4, I don't know when that out vs down argument peaked, but I could see many people getting confused by the two opposing thoughts.

[nevets88]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:01 AM, Phil McGleno said:

Eat the ball cue in transition.

What does this mean? I searched on golf and "eat ball cue" and variants. No love, lol.

[mvmac]

On 5/11/2020 at 8:51 AM, nevets88 said:

What does this mean? I searched on golf and "eat ball cue" and variants. No love, lol.

From what I've seen him demonstrate, lowering in transition with the upper and lower on top of each other, head getting closer to the ball.

[exCartboy]

Do most of the people who work with Gankas improve? That's a serious question - obviously there are some of his students who are doing great, and we probably won't hear much about people who don't. But isn't that what really matters the most? I don't get the impression that he's trying to force all of his students into the same style. 

As far as whether his information is useful for people who just see things online (i.e. aren't sending him videos to get individualized feedback), I don't know how possible it is to quantify something like this. Most amateurs (including me) have absolutely no idea what's actually happening in their swings. Trying to improve by watching any instructional video or reading an article is kind of a shot in the dark since whatever they're describing may be the fix to the opposite problem that a particular person may have. When I video myself making what feels like a Jim Furyk steep takeaway it actually looks flatter than Hogan. I may feel like I'm staying behind the ball only to see that I'm way ahead of it at impact. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, exCartboy said:

Do most of the people who work with Gankas improve?

I don't know, but also… probably more so than other instructors for two reasons:

• he's giving out better information than 90% of instructors
• his clients are paying several hundred ($500+) per lesson.

The latter speaks to student motivation.

1 hour ago, exCartboy said:

As far as whether his information is useful for people who just see things online (i.e. aren't sending him videos to get individualized feedback), I don't know how possible it is to quantify something like this.

To be fair, I don't think that's what the topic is doing. Many of the Instagram posts, the YouTube videos, etc. pretty clearly show off what he's talking about, teaching, etc.

1 hour ago, exCartboy said:

Most amateurs (including me) have absolutely no idea what's actually happening in their swings.

FWIW, the OP is an instructor.

This is more of a "theory" discussion, not a discussion about "how to get better using such and such or by doing so and so."

[GolfLug]

What's with Butch Harmon piggybacking GG lately? Saw a post on with BH using this  GBOX thingy to clear his left side. Harmon acted like he discovered a whole new universe. Lol.

Edited June 20, 2020 by GolfLug

[iacas]

They wrote an article together several months ago, remember. The IG post may have been an old one that promotes the G Box.

[GolfLug]

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

They wrote an article together several months ago, remember. The IG post may have been an old one that promotes the G Box.

Yeah, saw that article. Harmon seemed to act more of a disciple role than GG. My perception anyway.

BH could have a vested interest in the GBOX, I guess. 

Not bashing anything but the bromance  seemed a bit contrived in general.