Members Banned Discussion

[boogielicious]

Today, three members were removed from the site. They were banned for multiple reasons, but in the simplest terms, they repeatedly made clear they didn't enjoy the moderation of the site or their often racist/misogynist/sexist/agist/etc. posts. Their memories of moderation (specifically of deleted posts) didn't align at all with reality, and often attempted to convince others of their distaste, many times unprompted. They sent rude emails to moderators, rude PMs. They also had plenty of coaching and warnings to guide them back, but resisted. We do not like to ban people and rarely do it. But their behavior added nothing to the site content and only agitated the rest of the membership. We apologize for letting them continue their behavior longer than they deserved. 

[The Committee]

As the moderator here I will say a few facts and a few opinions:

• We almost never delete posts. Fewer than 10/month that aren't spam. And when we do, they're often something like four a time, where a member posts something, a moderator replies, the member replies again, and so does the moderator. After a time, all the posts - since they're off topic - may be removed. We have three levels of moderation, basically:
  • Level 1: Verbal warning in the topic. Usually short, since it's off-topic, and done by a moderator or occasionally just by another member who knows what's acceptable?
  • Level 2: An actual warning, with points.
  • Level 3: An actual warning, with points (often more points than level 2), and deletion of the post.
  • In other words, non-spam posts aren't deleted without notification. Turns out, people who are jerks just like to tell their side of the story, and hang their hat on "my post was deleted!" and leave out "… because I was being an insensitive ass" or "… because I continued to break a forum rule."
• Opinions cannot be "right" or "wrong." You can disagree with them, but far too many people these days take disagreements personally. The moderation team here has all met. They've played golf with a number of the members here. They've had disagreements with a number of the members here… just like they have had with their friends, their family, and other people they love. Stop trying to look for ways to be offended or pissed. You have your opinions, others have theirs.
• Text has no tone to it. Read everything as if the voice in your head is smiling as they say it. Give others the benefit of the doubt, or at least ask if they're having a go at you, because they almost never are.
• "He who lives in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." If you've never had a bad day, you can be critical of others when they may be having one. No, you've had bad days yourself, so you understand what I'm saying here? Thought so.
• Stop forming immutable opinions of people and then reading everything through those glasses. People are not their first impression. And if you've made 356 posts, and one crosses the line and you get moderated, well that was 1 out of 356. Keep it in perspective.

Moderation is almost not needed (outside of spam) if everyone simply follows a few basic ideas:

• Talk about the topic.
• Don't be a jerk.
• Don't assume others are being jerks.

It's really pretty simple.

P.S. We will not be releasing the names of these people. They were unhappy people, and we've done them a favor. As a moderation team, we are constantly evaluating our actions, so please take that time to evaluate your own. For 95% of you, this will take three seconds. If you've ever felt that you had an issue here, however, ask yourself if you're completely blameless in it (you likely weren't), and more importantly, if it's really a big deal.

[Darkfrog]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

We apologize for letting them continue their behavior longer than they deserved. 

Thanks, but no apology needed IMO. There will always be trolls. I think the TST team does a great job keeping this forum a pleasant, welcoming, and content rich place for everyone.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Darkfrog said:

Thanks, but no apology needed IMO. There will always be trolls. I think the TST team does a great job keeping this forum a pleasant, welcoming, and content rich place for everyone.

Banned! Too much sucking up.

But seriously, though, thanks. A few people can cloud the perception by and of many. The vast majority of people here are great members.

Great members that we enjoy helping, talking with, playing golf with.

They don't even point out every time we end sentences with prepositions.

[ChetlovesMer]

33 minutes ago, iacas said:

A few people can cloud the perception by and of many. The vast majority of people here are great members.

I read recently that 80% of the US content on Twitter is created by 2.2% of the US population. 

34 minutes ago, iacas said:

They don't even point out every time we end sentences with prepositions.

Oh, but I'm thinking it.... 

[JetFan1983]

Good example of the unfortunate limitations of forum reputation systems 😄

 

[CarlSpackler]

I avoided the ban hammer again. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, CarlSpackler said:

I avoided the ban hammer again. 

I can’t think of any other person who is remotely even close to being banned right now. These three, honestly, they probably should have just left on their own or been banned or more heavily warned months ago.

The things they said were outrageous. I don’t care if someone calls me out for disagreeing. Others can see that. I hate when people make up their own facts about “deleted posts” and all manner of bullshit. The moderators get a real behind-the-scenes look at stuff. They see the emails we get after someone is rightfully warned. They see the nasty DMs. They see the occasional deleted post where someone goes off the rails… only to have them come back in a week after their warning punishment ends and go off on a rant, hold a grudge, and ignore the role they played in deserving the warning.

Often, these individuals will find one other aggravated person on the site and then their views are simply emboldened. Rather than take responsibility for their own actions, they take this second person as “proof” of what a jerk I am 24/7, or @boogielicious, or @billchao, or whomever. They ignore the fact that hundreds or thousands of others either haven’t seen their post(s) or actually disagree with them, and see them as the jerk, or the one misbehaving, or whatever.

I post a lot, and I’m the admin, so it’s also true that everyone assumes it’s me who’s given them a warning or whatever. It’s almost never me, because our rule is that we don’t give warnings when we’re involved in the discussion (if our involvement goes beyond “hey, settle down buddy”). Another moderator gives the warning, and they’re always autonomous - if they think the other moderator involved in the discussion is being a wimp, they’re free to say so and not give a warning.

Lord knows I’ve disagreed plenty of times with @Vinsk, @David in FL, and others. They’re some of my favorite members, because they don’t take disagreement (on opinions) personally, and they’ll keep coming back at me with their opinions. I love that. What a boring place it would be if everyone just agreed on everything? It’d be an echo chamber.

I’ve said more times than I can count that I love being told I’m “wrong” about something (factual) because I can instantly improve my knowledge if the other person can show me what they’re talking about. It doesn’t happen too often, but the times it does… I love it!

This shit’s just golf, and yet, people take this shit FAR too seriously. I’ve put 72,000 posts on here in 16+ years, and yet… I don’t even take this shit all that seriously. I don’t think about the site much when I’m not on it. Unless you’re a perpetual pain in the ass, I don’t remember shit. I don’t hang on to shit. I mentioned two guys above, and I can’t remember the last thing(s) we’ve argued over. (That’s not entirely true - @Vinsk and I argued over football, which I don’t care about at all at the college level, but I did enjoy the sparring session using mostly @saevel25’s data/info.)

[CarlSpackler]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

I can’t think of any other person who is remotely even close to being banned right now. These three, honestly, they probably should have just left on their own or been banned or more heavily warned months ago.

Thankless is the position of the moderator.  Worse is the position of admin. The world is full of a$$hats. Kudos to you all!
My post was lighthearted of course. Weird to think I joined in 09 to discuss this stupid game that we all share. 

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Thankless is the position of the moderator.  Worse is the position of admin. The world is full of a$$hats. Kudos to you all!
My post was lighthearted of course. Weird to think I joined in 09 to discuss this stupid game that we all share. 

Yeah, we haven’t managed to get rid of you yet. 😉

[ChetlovesMer]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

I can’t think of any other person who is remotely even close to being banned right now. 

Just spit-balling here.

What about banning everyone who wears a white belt? ... Just a thought

Oh WAIT!
Unless their female. White belts are perfectly acceptable for females. 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Just spit-balling here.

What about banning everyone who wears a white belt? ... Just a thought

Oh WAIT!
Unless their female. White belts are perfectly acceptable for females. 

How about banning everyone who doesn’t know the difference between they’re/there/their? 🙂

Your white belt vendetta is as pointless as it gets.

[saevel25]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

How about banning everyone who doesn’t know the difference between they’re/there/their? 🙂

Please don't.

 

 

[ChetlovesMer]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

How about banning everyone who doesn’t know the difference between they’re/there/their? 🙂

I've got two words for you.... Chicago Public Schools. 🤪

Edited November 18, 2020 by ChetlovesMer

[iacas]

47 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I've got two words for you.... Chicago Public Schools. 🤪

I’ve got two words for you: they’re. 😉

[billchao]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

Yeah, we haven’t managed to get rid of you yet. 😉

I’ll be honest, I did seriously consider it because he kept trolling us in the Winter Depression thread when he lived in Florida 😜

[ChetlovesMer]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

I’ve got two words for you: they’re. 😉

I can't compete with you're whit. I complement you on yore no ledge of English. I'm shore my teachers did they're best. Sew, I should probably quit now. 🏳️

[mcanadiens]

23 minutes ago, billchao said:

I’ll be honest, I did seriously consider it because he kept trolling us in the Winter Depression thread when he lived in Florida 😜

Well he's back here in Ohio now and loving every second of it.

The thermal underwear comes out when the temperatures drop in the 60s. You can be sure there will be real tears in his eyes when we get our first dusting of snow.