Presidential Medal of Freedom

[Double Mocha Man]

18 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

How many hands do you have?

On another hand (Chet, you're like an octopus or spider) you could write a letter and defer the awarding of the award to the next person taking the office.  That's what I would do.  And if the current President said "No go" then we'd know the award was merely political.  But, just in case, I'd include a self-addressed stamped envelope and ask the Prez to mail the award to me.

[GolfLug]

54 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I really don't know what I'd do..

• On the other hand, .... 

I think I need more hands. 

How's that? Have I properly sat on the fence? 

Other than you forgetting to account for the Earth's rotation, seems like you've been wrongly accusing Chicago public education system of shorting you... Ha.

[billchao]

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Now, here's my question. I just got a stimulus check... literally 5 minutes ago it arrived in the mail. Should I refuse to accept it because Donald Trump's name is on it? 

Not the same thing. That's more like the Purple Heart comparison from before. You're entitled to the stimulus check as long as you qualify based on the criteria; you weren't hand picked by the president to receive it.

[sjduffers]

I'd like to point out in the Player and Sorenstam case, the award ceremony was held January 7, the day after the Capitol events, with no journalists invited, and no picture of the ceremony has surfaced since. Are they all too ashamed to be seen in public? Enough said.

As for Tiger returning his medal, I'd say no: Nicklaus got his and so should Tiger.  Both for achievements on the course and contributions off the course as well.

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Enough said.

Really?

22 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

As for Tiger returning his medal, I'd say no: Nicklaus got his and so should Tiger.  Both for achievements on the course and contributions off the course as well.

But…

[sjduffers]

Not sure what you are saying or implying with your "Really?" and "But..." comments. As for "Enough said", it's a shortcut for me saying I am butting out of this conversation after stating some facts. That's all.

Anyone can have their own opinion about this: I gave mine as it relates to Nicklaus and Tiger and again, I am out. Peace out.

[iacas]

31 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Not sure what you are saying or implying with your "Really?" and "But..." comments. As for "Enough said", it's a shortcut for me saying I am butting out of this conversation after stating some facts. That's all.

When someone says "enough said," it's a drop-the-mic moment. You think you provided that? Okay. I don't, and I'll point out that there were images of those folks, including from Gary Player's own son blasting his father for accepting it.

35 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Anyone can have their own opinion about this: I gave mine as it relates to Nicklaus and Tiger and again, I am out. Peace out.

So Tiger and Jack don't have to return theirs, but it's poor form for anyone to accept a new one? That doesn't feel inconsistent to you?

[Guy In Lyon]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

So Tiger and Jack don't have to return theirs, but it's poor form for anyone to accept a new one? That doesn't feel inconsistent to you?

They got theirs before the Beer Gut Putsch, when things were just normally awful.

On 1/12/2021 at 5:25 PM, iacas said:

FWIW, Obama gave out 118 over two terms (59 per term). Trump has given out 24 or 25, depending on whether you count Coach Hoodie.

FWIW, that could easily be because more people were willing to accept the MOF from Obama than from Trump.

I doubt that Sandra Day O'Connor, Desmond Tutu, George H. W. Bush, John Glenn, Richard Lugar, Bruce Springsteen, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, or Michael Jordan would have accepted one from Trump.

[boogielicious]

3 minutes ago, Guy In Lyon said:

when things were just normally awful

Great line. 

It’s a tough call on this medal for people who received it recently. When Dan Gable received his, the ceremony was awful. I felt bad for him. It is supposed to be a recognition of contribution to America, so it is quite an honor. But once Rush Limbaugh got it, it became sour for me. People who peddle fear and hate, left or right, are not great contributors.

[Guy In Lyon]

On 1/12/2021 at 7:10 PM, ChetlovesMer said:

Now, here's my question. I just got a stimulus check... literally 5 minutes ago it arrived in the mail. Should I refuse to accept it because Donald Trump's name is on it? 

Donald Trump's name on the check is meaningless and is nothing more than a pretty sleezy PR ploy by the president.

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, Guy In Lyon said:

FWIW, that could easily be because more people were willing to accept the MOF from Obama than from Trump.

Yeah, no. There's been one person so far to decline, and that fact speaks to the idea (against the idea) that Trump just hands them out left and right.

My opinion here isn't strong, but it comes down to this: I'm not going to pass judgment on people receiving an award just because of who gave it to them, particularly when we know who these people are: this isn't a case of Trump awarding something to a lawyer who did some nasty or illegal thing. These aren't pardons. They're recognition of the people for the great things they've achieved.

Trump can be whatever you think he is, but nobody is 100% evil. There's no guarantee whatsoever that Biden will extend the honor when he's in office to those who would decline, so if they want to get their medal, so be it. They earned it. And if they want to decline, so be it - that's their decision.

I've never liked that some people will skip attending the Oval Office after they win a championship, but I don't care much if they skip, either. It's their choice, and their time.

[billchao]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm not going to pass judgment on people receiving an award just because of who gave it to them

On this we agree. Bill Belichick’s stock rose a little in my eyes for declining the medal and his reasoning for it, but my opinion of any of the other twenty something recipients under Trump isn’t going to diminish because they didn’t return theirs.

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, Guy In Lyon said:

Donald Trump's name on the check is meaningless and is nothing more than a pretty sleezy PR ploy by the president.

Do you recall the first round of stimulus checks? Trump held things up almost a week to get his name on the checks. Not to mention that pithy letter he sent with his signature on it.  

Personally I would not accept the Medal of Freedom from a president I felt was corrupt. But I might accept one from a bad president with a good heart.

[Guy In Lyon]

On 1/14/2021 at 1:52 PM, iacas said:

Yeah, no. There's been one person so far to decline, and that fact speaks to the idea (against the idea) that Trump just hands them out left and right.

One person that has publicly declined.

There have been others over the years that have declined before there was any public announcement.

A few from Trump, a few from previous Presidents.

On 1/14/2021 at 1:52 PM, iacas said:

I'm not going to pass judgment on people receiving an award just because of who gave it to them,...

On 1/14/2021 at 1:52 PM, iacas said:

...nobody is 100% evil.

I will disagree on the second point.

As to your first.

Charles Lindbergh accepted the Congressional Medal of Honor, France's Legion of Honor, and the Order Of The German Eagle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_German_Eagle).

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Guy In Lyon said:

I will disagree on the second point.

Statements like that let everyone else know they can safely ignore your opinions on this. When you demonstrate that you're this type of "always" or "everything" or "100%" types, it's too hyperbolic. It's not real, it's not the truth. It's not factual.

[ChetlovesMer]

On 1/14/2021 at 7:52 AM, iacas said:

I've never liked that some people will skip attending the Oval Office after they win a championship, but I don't care much if they skip, either. It's their choice, and their time.

Over my lifetime I've voted in every presidential election for which I've been old enough to vote. I have voted for Democrats. I've voted for Republicans. I have voted for candidates who've won, and for candidates who've lost. My personal policy has always been to vote for the candidate of my choice, and then support who ever wins. If I'm ever invited to the Oval Office, I'm going! ... Again, it's pretty unlikely that I will ever get invited, but you never know. 

On 1/14/2021 at 7:52 AM, iacas said:

nobody is 100% evil.

I have to agree with you here. I can name some really good things and some things that I totally disagree with from every president in my lifetime. 

[Guy In Lyon]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

Statements like that let everyone else know they can safely ignore your opinions on this. When you demonstrate that you're this type of "always" or "everything" or "100%" types, it's too hyperbolic. It's not real, it's not the truth. It's not factual.

You really believe that nobody is 100% evil?

There are at least 6,000,000 people that would have disagreed with you.

But they're dead.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Guy In Lyon

[ChetlovesMer]

29 minutes ago, Guy In Lyon said:

You really believe that nobody is 100% evil?

There are at least 6,000,000 people that would have disagreed with you.

But they're dead.

Perhaps that guy is(was) the exception?

Plus, I think the 6,000,000 number might be way low. ... not that it matters. I get your point and I also immediately thought of that guy. It's kind of hard to argue that he's not 100% evil. For now, I think it would be wise to leave him out of the conversation. That one is still very painful for a lot of folks. 

Having said all of that. I don't think we've ever had a president who is(was) 100% evil.