What Is Considered a Hard Golf Course Rating?

[tadpole87]

Hi,

what is a considered a hard golf course rating? The course I normally play is on a rating 72.8/149 and course yardage is 6711. I struggle to break 90 and only manage to do it twice 89 and a 87. I am not a long hitter and average between 230-240 drives. My average scores are in the mid 90s and its been my mission to break 90 consistently. I have been trying to break 90 for the last 10 games and only manage to hit 91. It is so frustrating and I feel depressed playing this golf course. 

[dagolfer18]

I would say any course that, from the tips, has a rating of par or higher and a slope in the high 130s or higher. A few examples from some of my local courses:

•Treyburn Country Club is a par 72, 7175 yards from the tips. The rating is 74.1/137

•Duke University Golf Course is a par 72, 7154 yards from the tips. The rating is 74.8/142

•Croasdaile Country Club is a par 72, 7068 yards from the tips. The rating is 74.1/141

[dennyjones]

A rating/slope  of 72.8/149 is very difficult for mid/high handicap players.   It's beyond my scope to enjoy a round from those tees.     Does the course have shorter tees?   My home course from the tips plays 76.0/146 but I play either 72/135 or 69.0/123 or the hybrids between those.    

[saevel25]

18 minutes ago, tadpole87 said:

The course I normally play is on a rating 72.8/149 and course yardage is 6711.

Most of rating is length, or how long the course plays.

72.8 for a 6711, that course plays long. A 149 is pretty stout test for a bogey golfer. 

Lets say you have a par 72 course, that has a rating of 72, but a slope of 113 rating. A bogey golfer, what ever they shoot over par will be their handicap differential. 

Your course, which has the rating close to 72, would take that 18 over par score and turn it into a 13 differential. A bogey golfer, who shoots bogey golf on that course, just played 5 strokes better than bogey golf. 

 

[tadpole87]

5 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

A rating/slope  of 72.8/149 is very difficult for mid/high handicap players.   It's beyond my scope to enjoy a round from those tees.     Does the course have shorter tees?   My home course from the tips plays 76.0/146 but I play either 72/135 or 69.0/123 or the hybrids between those.    

Yes they do have the white tees which is 70.1/142 playing at 6130 yards. But I have never played from them because my playing partners all play from the blues. There is a another course I play within the same club and that is even more of a monster I have never break 90 there rating 74.7/150 playing at 7015 yards.

6 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Most of rating is length, or how long the course plays.

72.8 for a 6711, that course plays long. A 149 is pretty stout test for a bogey golfer. 

Lets say you have a par 72 course, that has a rating of 72, but a slope of 113 rating. A bogey golfer, what ever they shoot over par will be their handicap differential. 

Your course, which has the rating close to 72, would take that 18 over par score and turn it into a 13 differential. A bogey golfer, who shoots bogey golf on that course, just played 5 strokes better than bogey golf. 

 

thank you for the info!

[imsys0042]

The last two places that I've been a member at play very similar.   Here's the ratings, from the normal men's tees:

69.5/124.  (6100)

72.5/145.  (6600)

Since the main driver is distance for a rating, the fact that the "easier" course is much shorter doesn't give it an effective rating for me personally.   Although I believe the ratings are done for what a scratch golfer should shoot and I believe that the system works for that.   If you hit the ball straight on the easier course, you'll be fine and you'll have less club in, hence you'll be more accurate.

Both places, your handicap travels very well to other courses.  Most misses on either course are a straight up 2 shot penalty, even for red/yellow hazards (opposed to OB) because where you have to drop is usually a killer.

The back tees are like 74.1 and 148 slope.   And even the pro thought it was a little under-rated.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by imsys0042

[saevel25]

The closer you get to being a scratch golfers, the more the course rating matters more. 

The equation for differential is (Score - Rating) x (113 / Slope Rating). 

If you are scratch, your differential is zero. So that means that you are shooting at the course rating. With it being near zero, the slope doesn't matter as much. 

 

[tadpole87]

5 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

The last two places that I've been a member at play very similar.   Here's the ratings, from the normal men's tees:

69.5/124.  (6100)

72.5/145.  (6600)

Since the main driver is distance for a rating, the fact that the "easier" course is much shorter doesn't give it an effective rating for me personally.   Although I believe the ratings are done for what a scratch golfer should shoot and I believe that the system works for that.   If you hit the ball straight on the easier course, you'll be fine and you'll have less club in, hence you'll be more accurate.

Both places, your handicap travels very well to other courses.  Most misses on either course are a straight up 2 shot penalty, even for red/yellow hazards (opposed to OB) because where you have to drop is usually a killer.

The back tees are like 74.1 and 148 slope.   And even the pro thought it was a little under-rated.

 

yes the course I play is quite narrow and keeping the driver in play is a must. surrounded by water hazards and bunkers. miss the fairway and its an easy double minimum and the par 3s are the most absolute score killer. 

[mohearn]

2 hours ago, tadpole87 said:

Hi,

what is a considered a hard golf course rating? The course I normally play is on a rating 72.8/149 and course yardage is 6711. I struggle to break 90 and only manage to do it twice 89 and a 87. I am not a long hitter and average between 230-240 drives. My average scores are in the mid 90s and its been my mission to break 90 consistently. I have been trying to break 90 for the last 10 games and only manage to hit 91. It is so frustrating and I feel depressed playing this golf course. 

Don't feel bad, your scores are good (89 and 87) considering the difficulty.  You are (roughly speaking) about a bogey golfer, probably better.

So, it helps to look at the bogey rating of the course you are playing. Bogey rating is analogous to course rating, except instead of using a scratch golfer's characteristics, a "bogey golfer" is used. A course such as yours with a 72.8/149 rating, has a bogey rating of 100.5!  So  your scores are well under that, which is great. You are doing well, even though I know it maybe doesn't feel that way all the time.

The course rating is determined by a combination of course length and obstacles, so I can see that your course has many challenges. 

 

[Shindig]

Slope ratings that get up to 130 are where I start to consider it tough.  Below that are varying degrees, and under about 120 or so I start to think it's a [relatively] easy course.  Of course, it's still golf, and golf is hard.  

A scratch player at Torrey Pines South, playing the tips, gets 7 strokes.  That sounds pretty tough!

[DeadMan]

I think a course is hard when the course rating is more than a stroke above par and the slope is above 135.  I wouldn't want to play a course with a slope rating near 150 all that often. Sheesh.

[GolfLug]

25 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

I think a course is hard when the course rating is more than a stroke above par and the slope is above 135.  I wouldn't want to play a course with a slope rating near 150 all that often. Sheesh.

I second this. Anything above slope 135 means difficult. IMHO difficult means you don't have to hit super shitty shots to take a big number. Even mild offline hit will often result in a scramble to save double bogey+ for a close to bogey golfer like myself.  

Edited August 12, 2021 by GolfLug

[Esox]

One of my couple times a month stops can be a beast, especially when the wind is blowing off the lakes. Rattle Run is 74.8 /140 from the tips, where I used to play it till I turned 60..... and can bring you to your knees without the use of silly gimmicky holes. Even from the more forward tees it is a demanding course that punishes sloppy play.

https://michigan.twoguyswhogolf.com/reviews/rattlerun.html

 

 

[Pretzel]

That's a very abnormally high slope rating, at least compared to the majority of even difficult courses. For reference, the maximum possible slope is 155. If I had to guess I'd assume that while it's not a long course, it probably has lots of forced carries longer than what the average bogey golfer is expected to hit the ball that would raise the course's bogey rating (in addition to heavily penalizing misses and having small greens).

The hardest course I've played is TPC Colorado, which has a course rating and slope of 77.2/138 from the tips. From the Gold tees for ladies it is rated 78.6/151, with the slope being so high specifically because of forced carries and the "average" bogey lady golfer used for slope calculations not hitting it far enough to really handle that (plus it's still 6,875 yards from the Golds, very long for ladies).

How difficult a golf course is will be reflected in the course rating, not the slope. A hard course has a higher course rating, with very hard courses having a course rating 3+ strokes higher than par. The slope rating doesn't tell you how hard a golf course is, it just tells you how much easier the course is for a scratch golfer than a bogey golfer. A par 72 course with a 63/150 rating would still be an easy course, it just would be more difficult for bogey golfers than it would be for scratch golfers (scratch golfers would be expected to shoot more than 18 strokes better than a bogey golfer there). Similarly a course with a 77/90 rating would not be an easy course, it's just that you'd expect the difference between a scratch golfer and a bogey golfer to be less than 18 strokes.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Pretzel

[iacas]

2 hours ago, GolfLug said:

I second this. Anything above slope 135 means difficult.

Is a par 72, 67.5/136 course “difficult”?

[mdl]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Is a par 72, 67.5/136 course “difficult”?

I never knew slope is meant to measure how much harder a course is for a bogey golfer versus a scratch. Sounds like that's a course that's super easy for, say, mid single digit caps and below, and pretty hard for a bogey golfer, especially one who isn't super long.

[ncates00]

13 minutes ago, mdl said:

I never knew slope is meant to measure how much harder a course is for a bogey golfer versus a scratch. Sounds like that's a course that's super easy for, say, mid single digit caps and below, and pretty hard for a bogey golfer, especially one who isn't super long.

I never looked at slope to make a determination. I just looked at course rating as compared against par. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, mdl said:

I never knew slope is meant to measure how much harder a course is for a bogey golfer versus a scratch.

It's not quite that.

1 hour ago, mdl said:

Sounds like that's a course that's super easy for, say, mid single digit caps and below, and pretty hard for a bogey golfer, especially one who isn't super long.

It's not really "pretty hard" at all, though: a golfer (say, an 18 handicapper) only needs to shoot 17 over par to get an 18 differential.