2021 (2020) Ryder Cup

[Vinsk]

6 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

17 hours ago, ScouseJohnny said:

 

There's a phrase about counting unhatched chickens. I think it applies here.

Well…it was quite an ass kicking and the USA team isn’t going to get any weaker nor the Euro team any stronger unless something remarkable happens.

[ncates00]

9 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Well…it was quite an ass kicking and the USA team isn’t going to get any weaker nor the Euro team any stronger unless something remarkable happens.

Europe will get a little better once Rory starts playing like Rory again. But then again, Rahm and Rory aren’t going to be enough. 

Hovland will get better, too. 

[nevets88]

We're all friendlies so let's just be... friendly!

 

[DeadMan]

  

12 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Europe will get a little better once Rory starts playing like Rory again. But then again, Rahm and Rory aren’t going to be enough. 

Hovland will get better, too. 

The US team might get worse, too. This was the best US team ever assembled. Just over a decade ago at the 2010 Ryder Cup, the US was taking a 21-year old Rickie Fowler, a 37-year old Stewart Cink, and Jeff Overton. Scheffler was the lowest ranked US player this time, with a world ranking of 21. The 2010 team had 4 players ranked worse than that. It's pretty incredible how good the 2021 team is in comparison to that. It may just be a fluke thing for the US to have such a strong team. 

Also, what if Patrick Reed automatically qualifies in 2023? That could be a bad thing, given how much baggage Reed brings to the team.

Edited September 27, 2021 by DeadMan

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, DeadMan said:

Also, what if Patrick Reed automatically qualifies in 2023? That could be a bad thing, given how much baggage Reed brings to the team.

Or how much excitement and competitive edge could he bring. He’s been pretty good in the Ryder Cup. BD and Koepka brought baggage and played great. 

[klineka]

2 hours ago, DeadMan said:

  

The US team might get worse, too. This was the best US team ever assembled. Just over a decade ago at the 2010 Ryder Cup, the US was taking a 21-year old Rickie Fowler, a 37-year old Stewart Cink, and Jeff Overton. Scheffler was the lowest ranked US player this time, with a world ranking of 21. The 2010 team had 4 players ranked worse than that. It's pretty incredible how good the 2021 team is in comparison to that. It may just be a fluke thing for the US to have such a strong team. 

Also, what if Patrick Reed automatically qualifies in 2023? That could be a bad thing, given how much baggage Reed brings to the team.

The majority of the players on this US team have such high floors and are such consistent players (DJ, Morikawa, Finau, etc) that outside of injury to multiple guys I think it's unlikely the team they bring to Rome will be worse than what they brought this year. 

Yes a lot can happen in 2 years, but even if a couple guys who are on the team now struggle over the next 2 years and don't have form heading into Rome, there are a number of young players who didn't make this team who absolutely could go to Rome, guys like Sam Burns, Will Zalatoris, even Max Homa come to mind. Guys that can absolutely flush it with their irons and can hold their own off the tee too.

Now it's certainly possible that the course fit in Rome might not be as strong as this year was for the U.S. team, but I don't think the talent and depth this year was a fluke by any means.

[iacas]

56 minutes ago, klineka said:

The majority of the players on this US team have such high floors and are such consistent players (DJ, Morikawa, Finau, etc) that outside of injury to multiple guys I think it's unlikely the team they bring to Rome will be worse than what they brought this year. 

I would wager money that they don’t have 12 of the top 21 OWGR players.

[StuM]

Too early to speculate on Captain for 2023?   Captain Selection is not something I have followed in past so not even sure when Captain gets announced.  I understand there is a vote of the PGA Executive Committee/ R&A

Who will be Ryder Cup captains in 2023? We’ve got a hunch.

---

It’s never too early to speculate who will assume the top jobs at the 44th Ryder Cup in Rome and beyond.

Just for my reference, below is a piece on how the captains are ultimately selected, but my question above is more who will they consider and ultimately who will be chosen.

How are Ryder Cup captains decided? Inside the selection process

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Few people have a larger role on the ultimate outcome of Ryder Cup week than each team's captain. Here's how they're chosen.

 

 

[Bonvivant]

Just now, iacas said:

I would wager money that they don’t have 12 of the top 21 OWGR players.

Maybe they don't bring that, but looking at current OWGR and who is out of the top 20 that could reasonably make their way in, the list is pretty short outside of US players. I don't see any up-and-comers from outside of the US other than maybe Hatton (who is already inside of that mark) and Cam Smith (still won't be playing for EU) that I foresee being inside of the top 25 in 2 years time. I suspect that the US will have another blistering OWGR advantage in 2 years, though I don't think they will put on this kind of show in Rome. Kokrak, Zalatoris and Homa could get inside of that top 21 mark, possibly replacing US or non US players.

I am curious to hear who you think comes into the top 21 that is a non-US player in the next 2 years.

[Colins69]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

Uhm… no. Just a terrible take by you here.

So how do you explain what happened, are you saying Chamblee didn't say that or perhaps Poulter didn't win his singles???

24 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Maybe they don't bring that, but looking at current OWGR and who is out of the top 20 that could reasonably make their way in, the list is pretty short outside of US players. I don't see any up-and-comers from outside of the US other than maybe Hatton (who is already inside of that mark) and Cam Smith (still won't be playing for EU) that I foresee being inside of the top 25 in 2 years time. I suspect that the US will have another blistering OWGR advantage in 2 years, though I don't think they will put on this kind of show in Rome. Kokrak, Zalatoris and Homa could get inside of that top 21 mark, possibly replacing US or non US players.

I am curious to hear who you think comes into the top 21 that is a non-US player in the next 2 years.

I'd think the European team couldn't play any worse than it did, but could play alot better than it did. If the USA don't play as well as they did how much closer would it be, scary thought that yeah?

[boogielicious]

58 minutes ago, Colins69 said:

 

I'd think the European team couldn't play any worse than it did, but could play alot better than it did. If the USA don't play as well as they did how much closer would it be, scary thought that yeah?

It’s kind of coulda woulda shoulda here don’t you think? The US team just played better for the most part in every session. Rahm played well but then lost to Scottie S in the singles. Rory played poorly, but he hasn’t been playing well lately compared to most of the US team. DJ, Morikawa, JT, BD, Koepka, Cantley all rose to the challenge. Even the coaches picks played well, Spieth, Berger and Harris. Westwood stunk it up when it counted, which is disappointing. 

You can look back and come up with scenarios where the Euro team could have one, but I could also come up with the opposite and have the US winning more. It’s all just Monday Morning Quarterbacking. The OWGR is a pretty good indicator of a players ability to win. The Euro team had fine players, but not as good as the US plain and simple. And the US had better pairings and strategy. Looks at the list.

Official World Golf Ranking - Ranking

 

[Bonvivant]

Just now, Colins69 said:

I'd think the European team couldn't play any worse than it did, but could play alot better than it did. If the USA don't play as well as they did how much closer would it be, scary thought that yeah?

The only reason why it wasn't 20+ points for US was Rahm. Go look at SG stats for these teams, then come back and tell me how close they are in skill. Obviously the EU team has talent, but lots of it is waning (I include Rory in this as I don't think we will ever see him in the top 10 on OWGR ever again). Older players have more experience, but are passed their prime when it comes to skill level.

The EU team could have definitely played worse. The US team played well, but JT, Spieth and Berger were less than good IMO. If those guys are playing up to their normal standards it could have been worse for EU.

4 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Well…it was quite an ass kicking and the USA team isn’t going to get any weaker nor the Euro team any stronger unless something remarkable happens.

This x1000. I don't think Rory will ever play like he used to, and in 2 years he could be in Fowler territory. I know RF was never at that high of a peak, but Rory's current trajectory looks bleak to me.

Hovland and Hatton are the only others in the top 20 (owgr) besides Rahm, and while I suspect they will stay there, I don't see any other EU players likely to get in. Fleetwood and Lowry would be the closest or best shots to do it (Fitzpatrick is higher ranked but I don't think that giving up that much off the tee will get him higher on owgr), but I don't have particularly high hopes for either of them, although I like both of them.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Bonvivant

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

Maybe they don't bring that, but looking at current OWGR and who is out of the top 20 that could reasonably make their way in, the list is pretty short outside of US players.

Two years is a long freaking time, 12 of the top 21 being on ONE team is a LONG shot to happen again.

That's just the odds, man.

2 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

I don't see any up-and-comers from outside of the US other than maybe Hatton (who is already inside of that mark) and Cam Smith (still won't be playing for EU) that I foresee being inside of the top 25 in 2 years time.

So how much do you want to bet?

2 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

I am curious to hear who you think comes into the top 21 that is a non-US player in the next 2 years.

For all you know it might be some South African kid in college right now, or three Korn Ferry Tour players.

Two years ago did you think Patrick Cantlay would be OWGR 4? Heck no.

What were the OWGR rankings of the previous six U.S. Ryder Cup team members? 12 inside the top 21 is really rare.

2 hours ago, Colins69 said:

So how do you explain what happened, are you saying Chamblee didn't say that or perhaps Poulter didn't win his singles???

18 holes of match play, in a match that wasn't remotely close to interesting for the American player, doesn't prove that Brandel Chamblee was wrong about how poor of a ball striker Ian Poulter is right now.

This speaks to that:

SG: Approach the Green | PGA TOUR Stats

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Strokes Gained | Greens in Regulation | Accuracy from Fairway | Accuracy from Rough | Scoring | Going for it | Holeouts, Other

Oh, gee, 141st.

Oh, maybe he's a good driver?

SG: Off-the-Tee | PGA TOUR Stats

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Strokes Gained | Distance (All Drives) | Distance (Measured Drives) | Accuracy | Scoring | Other | Radar

Nope, 133rd.

Poulter is a poor ball striker. His record in this Ryder Cup was (backward):

• He won his singles match against Tony Finau, who withdrew from the Dunhill Links due to an ongoing health issue, 3&2.
• He was waxed with Rory McIlroy by DJ/Collin, 4&3.
• He was waxed by Cantlay and Schauffele, while playing with Rory again, 5&3.

Thus, he was 1-2-0 for the week.

18 hours ago, Colins69 said:

And Chamblee said Poulter is the worst ball striker "By a lot" of all the players and Poulter won his singles match by 3 holes LOL...

Best result of the European players and most of the USA players, guess that's what you call an anomaly. Unbelievable how stupid that statement was, the Postman did himself proud....

1-2-0 is the "best result of the European players and most of the USA players"?

On what f***ing planet? Because if you are — as you clearly are — only talking about singles matches, then that's just really dumb. Like I said, a "terrible take."

BTW, Poulter won 3&2. He played the 16th hole.

JT won 4&3. Bryson won 3&2. Scottie beat Rahm (who is a significantly better ball striker than Ian Poulter) 4&3. Cantlay won his match 4&2. And Rory won 3&2, too. So that's five other people, three of which are Americans, who either matched or beat Poulter's singles match play scoring…

Like I said, a terrible take.

[Colins69]

50 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

The only reason why it wasn't 20+ points for US was Rahm. Go look at SG stats for these teams, then come back and tell me how close they are in skill. Obviously the EU team has talent, but lots of it is waning (I include Rory in this as I don't think we will ever see him in the top 10 on OWGR ever again). Older players have more experience, but are passed their prime when it comes to skill level.

The EU team could have definitely played worse. The US team played well, but JT, Spieth and Berger were less than good IMO. If those guys are playing up to their normal standards it could have been worse for EU.

This x1000. I don't think Rory will ever play like he used to, and in 2 years he could be in Fowler territory. I know RF was never at that high of a peak, but Rory's current trajectory looks bleak to me.

Hovland and Hatton are the only others in the top 20 (owgr) besides Rahm, and while I suspect they will stay there, I don't see any other EU players likely to get in. Fleetwood and Lowry would be the closest or best shots to do it (Fitzpatrick is higher ranked but I don't think that giving up that much off the tee will get him higher on owgr), but I don't have particularly high hopes for either of them, although I like both of them.

What happened at the last Ryder cup when USA lost, you said your team didn't play to their potential. I call that double standards, but no problem for me I can wait for the next Ryder cup and see if Europe play well or not, and what will USA do. Either way it's game of fun and friendship with a little competition mixed in, I enjoyed it....

[Bonvivant]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Two years is a long freaking time, 12 of the top 21 being on ONE team is a LONG shot to happen again.

That's just the odds, man.

Point taken. I am solely looking at the current OWGR and thinking about who it makes sense to have an upward trajectory on there, and I don't see any EU players that stand out. I do know that there is always a fresh crop of players up and coming, and I wasn't taking that into account.

 

Just now, iacas said:

So how much do you want to bet?

If you wanted to do something with current top 100 players and how many will be in the top 20 in 2 years time, I might bite, but I don't know about players that aren't on there, so I can't really do that. Point taken here as well😁

[jmanbooyaa]

2 years is a long way from now. Just think a few years back you would have said Fowler would be a staple of the US team and one of their leaders. He was awful the last 2 season trying to work on his swing. I would imagine this US team will look different and assured the Euro team will be drastically different. And I am ok with that. It is golf. 

[Bonvivant]

Just now, Colins69 said:

What happened at the last Ryder cup when USA lost, you said your team didn't play to their potential. I call that double standards, but no problem for me I can wait for the next Ryder cup and see if Europe play well or not, and what will USA do. Either way it's game of fun and friendship with a little competition mixed in, I enjoyed it....

Cheers to that!🍺 I hope that it is more competitive next time, and I think it will be since EU is setting up the course and will likely get more time practicing it as well. Unlike you, I can't wait for the next one! 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Bonvivant

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Colins69 said:

What happened at the last Ryder cup when USA lost, you said your team didn't play to their potential.

The European Team has been underdogs for the past… many years. And in France, the course setup was crazy. The European Tour also plays the host course for a few years before the event(s). They do a LOT to try to win the Ryder Cup.

You don't seem to realize, too, how quickly a Ryder Cup can flip from 16-12 to 14-14 or worse.

1 hour ago, Bonvivant said:

If you wanted to do something with current top 100 players and how many will be in the top 20 in 2 years time, I might bite, but I don't know about players that aren't on there, so I can't really do that. Point taken here as well😁

That's not what you said, and not what we're talking about.

1 hour ago, jmanbooyaa said:

2 years is a long way from now. Just think a few years back you would have said Fowler would be a staple of the US team and one of their leaders. He was awful the last 2 season trying to work on his swing. I would imagine this US team will look different and assured the Euro team will be drastically different. And I am ok with that. It is golf. 

Yeah.