SQAIRZ, Fact or Fiction?

[billchao]

@TexasSR75070 I find it curious that you claim not to be affiliated with the company in any way yet this is the only topic you’ve posted in depth on since you’ve been a member here.

Most of us here are skeptical. I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re not really doing a great job convincing anyone to buy these shoes. Sure I’d love to increase my driving distance, but I’m certainly not going to “try” them at $200/pair.

[TexasSR75070]

21 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

well documented scientific studies

I provided a link to the article that talks about the results of the study that Footjoy did in 2016, indicating the right footwear can increase driver distance by 9 yards - their claim, not mine. Following is a link to another study, this on Sqairz shoes, that was done by the same lab, BodiTrak, that Footjoy used to come to their conclusion. 

TerryHashimotoCaseStudy (sqairz.com)

[Darkfrog]

30 minutes ago, TexasSR75070 said:

I provided a link to the article that talks about the results of the study that Footjoy did in 2016, indicating the right footwear can increase driver distance by 9 yards

I know this isn't your claim, but a shoe company doing a study with an outcome that promotes shoes makes me skeptical without even reading it. Kind of like a soda company doing a study to show that sugar in soda isn't unhealthy.

[TexasSR75070]

1 minute ago, billchao said:

@TexasSR75070 I find it curious that you claim not to be affiliated with the company in any way yet this is the only topic you’ve posted in depth on since you’ve been a member here.

Most of us here are skeptical. I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re not really doing a great job convincing anyone to buy these shoes. Sure I’d love to increase my driving distance, but I’m certainly not going to “try” them at $200/pair.

I don't know when I first joined this forum but it has been a while since I logged in. There is not the activity here that I see at other forums where I am a member which is why I rarely come here. There are certain topics that pique my interest when I run across them, areas where I have a degree of knowledge, perhaps have done research on, or where I can share my own experiences, especially when that may help others. The thread on Sqairz is one of those topics that I happened to see and it is one where I have engaged in discussions elsewhere. GPS devices and apps, GPS technology itself and its accuracy or inaccuracy, shot / data trackers like Game Golf, Shot Scope and Arccos also are of interest to me. The effects of old age on the game such as the need for joint replacements, or cataract surgery, selection of tees (moving up) are also topics I engage in but haven't come across here yet.

I am no swing guru and wouldn't venture to offer swing advice to anyone. I know very little about shafts and shaft profiles, only what has worked for me. I am not an equipment junkie, either so those are some of the topics which I may peruse but not engage in. 

I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy Sqairz shoes. I just wanted to give a counterpoint based on my research and personal experience to those that are skeptical of the claims. I just think there must be something to the claims as Sqairz isn't the only manufacturer talking about performance enhancements that can be realized with the proper footwear (can be, not always). There was Footjoy who said it based on a study back in 2016. Athalonz says their shoes help you generate 9% more power. Paynter doesn't quantify the performance increase due to their shoes, just stating that they "allow golfers the capacity to leverage ground forces, control movement, and maximize speed at impact". Looks/fashion/fads tend to drive shoe sales, overlooking the benefits that proper footwear can provide. 

People are going to believe or not believe what they want. If every claim of increased distance for the latest driver or ball to come out were true, I'd be hitting the ball 400 yards off the tee! 😁 There is no single driver, shaft, ball, grip or any other piece of equipment, including shoes, that is right for everyone. As it is so often said, YMMV.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, TexasSR75070 said:

1. I did not alternate with other golf shoes. I wouldn't be able to quantify any difference doing it that way as I cannot "pick and choose" specific rounds to look at in regard to accumulated data with my current shot tracking tool. I can only look at the accumulated difference in hundreds of rounds played before and almost 200 rounds since wearing starting to wear Sqairz.

Of course you didn't, because that would be ridiculous. 😀I'm only pointing out that you haven't conducted anything approaching a fair study either. You hit the ball roughly 7 yards farther on average now, but the true cause could be any number of factors (and it could be two, three, or even more factors combined).

3 hours ago, TexasSR75070 said:

2/3/4. Why do I have to explain GRF to you? You know very well. I defer to the experts. My only "proof" is in the data I have collected over time.

I do know, but you're the one making the claims, so I wanted to see if we could gauge the breadth and depth of your GRF knowledge. In truth, you don't "push off" your right side very much during the downswing, you don't rely on "traction" much for the vertical GRF (shear forces matter here), and all of those things have a lot more to do with the sole of the shoe (i.e. whether you have spikes, whether it's wet, etc.) than the wider toe box, the squared toe, etc.

In other words, and in my opinion, you're here doing the same thing you alleged that others did: saying things without doing any real "research."

And at the end of the day we generally don't play golf in dress shoes, so the comparison falls flat. Sqairz didn't invent spikes, and almost all of what you talk about has to deal with that. Those aren't unique to Sqairz.

3 hours ago, TexasSR75070 said:

5. Again, yes, I personally attribute my difference in driving performance to the shoes. I've taken no lessons, made no swing changes, not changed equipment during the times referenced.

And conditions are exactly the same, your body is exactly the same, you're playing just as frequently and practicing just the same amount, and all other factors are the same… errr… wait, they're not. 😀 Again, not beating you up here, just pointing out that your seven yards could be from a lot of things. Even the placebo effect!

3 hours ago, TexasSR75070 said:

6. It is the combination of both. By being able to swing faster by making better use of GRF in a controlled, balanced manner, I am one of those who has seen a performance boost from the Sqairz shoes.

You don't know that either of these are true:

• That you're "making better use of GRF" or
• That you're swinging any faster.

You could just be hitting the center of the face more, or you could have better launch conditions that optimize for ball flight. Or the fairways could be a tiny bit firmer. Or you're pulling the ball a little bit more now versus before. Or you're playing more frequently. Etc.

3 hours ago, TexasSR75070 said:

You said no one here would accept Footjoy making the claim that their shoes can add 9 yards to one's drive.

No, that's not what I said.

You asked "would you question it" and I said "yes." So, it's fair to say that I'd have questions about it, not that I "would not accept it." (Nor did I speak for everyone and say "everyone here would question it.")

42 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I think you will find most members of The Sand Trap are skeptical of claims made by manufacturers without actual well documented scientific studies supporting them. If the shoes are comfortable, then that is 95% of what is needed for most folks. We’re glad you like them and that simultaneously you gained distance, but there certainly could be other factors besides just the shoes.

Yes.

19 minutes ago, TexasSR75070 said:

TerryHashimotoCaseStudy (sqairz.com)

The study is interesting but I don't find it to be all that great. And I bumped on more than a few things:

Quote

Try putting all your pressure on your trail toe and taking the club back, you will note a more restricted backswing and less range of motion... Now put all your pressure towards the trail heel and take it back, much greater range of motion in the knees hips and shoulders.

I don't know about you, but if I put ALL of my weight in my heels (by lifting the ball of my foot off the ground), I can't make a golf swing at all, but I can lift my heels off the ground slightly and make a fairly normal looking swing.

Quote

I observed much higher vertical forces (in total and on the lead side) in comparative testing with golfers wearing the Sqairz shoes. It is a well-established fact in pressure mapping that shifting pressure to the lead side fast and having higher vertical forces on the lead side prior to impact the # 1 way to gain distance.

Two things to that:

• If the mass shifts forward too much, the moment arm can be smaller, and thus the torque could actually be lower even with a higher vertical force.
• This could also just be saying "the golfer swung faster in their Sqairz shoes." I highly doubt the study was anything like a double-blind study, and I could imagine golfers were well aware of what they were doing.

Quote

Suggesting “Curling up your toes” in conventional shoes something I have successfully advised from Major Championship Winners to the average golfer. With the Sqairz Shoes I observed how much more effective the ankle was working optimizing the vertical propulsion system creating more vertical power at prior to impact, this was an amazing revelation and validated what we’ve seen on BodiTrak and 3D for a decade now.

Hmmm. 🙂

 

1 minute ago, TexasSR75070 said:

There is not the activity here that I see at other forums where I am a member which is why I rarely come here.

Quality over quantity, my man! 😉

1 minute ago, TexasSR75070 said:

I am no swing guru and wouldn't venture to offer swing advice to anyone. I know very little about shafts and shaft profiles, only what has worked for me. I am not an equipment junkie, either so those are some of the topics which I may peruse but not engage in.

We don't talk about that much here either. We're big on practice, swing theory, improvement. Facts. Science.

1 minute ago, TexasSR75070 said:

I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy Sqairz shoes. I just wanted to give a counterpoint based on my research and personal experience to those that are skeptical of the claims.

And you've done that. Fairly well, IMO.

1 minute ago, TexasSR75070 said:

I just think there must be something to the claims as Sqairz isn't the only manufacturer talking about performance enhancements that can be realized with the proper footwear (can be, not always).

I don't think anyone has argued that, but at the same time, if you go to the PGA Show, you'll find freaking golf tees all promoting "gain five yards with our tee!" Hence the skepticism.

I think a healthy dose of skepticism is, uhhhh, kinda talked myself into a corner here… healthy. Wise. Prudent.

Thank you for answering my questions.

P.S. Please add an avatar, @TexasSR75070.

[GolfLug]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:27 PM, jsgolfer said:

 Fiction of course.  But they are really comfortable! 

@jsgolferprobably plays 100+ rounds a year, and a very reliable source of first hand information since he owns at least one pair. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by GolfLug

[TexasSR75070]

@iacasSorry, I had not looked at your signature until your last post. Undoubtedly, you are the expert and I yield to your superior knowledge. You have convinced me that my distance gains attributable to the Sqairz shoes are probably nothing more than a figment of my imagination and probably due to any number of factors but the shoes. I am also sorry to have "riled up" so many of the skeptics by joining in on this discussion. I'll bow out now, bruised and perhaps not as gracefully as I would like. 🤐

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, TexasSR75070 said:

You have convinced me that my distance gains attributable to the Sqairz shoes are probably nothing more than a figment of my imagination and probably due to any number of factors but the shoes.

I never said that they're due to the shoes, only that you don't really know what they're due to. It could even be that you're just letting yourself swing faster not for any physical reason, but because you think you can and you think your shoes are great.

Like Dumbo's feather. And I'm not calling you Dumb (or Dumbo), just that it's a good tale of "if you believe it, and thus it helps you, then it helps you."

At the end of the day, for you, the shoes are comfortable and you're hitting it a little bit farther. Correlation, maybe. Causation? Possibly, even if it's not "likely."

But please don't come on here and tout a bunch of stuff you don't necessarily understand yourself while simultaneously making allegations, please, against others for "not putting in the research" or whatever it is that you said.

It's not only human nature to push back against stuff like that, it's typically untrue here at TST. Welcome (back) to the site. Seeing as how we've been here for ~20 years, there's a LOT of content, and a lot more in-depth posts than you'll find on other more "busy" sites with a lot of very shallow responses.

[NM Golf]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I think you will find most members of The Sand Trap are skeptical of claims made by manufacturers without actual well documented scientific studies supporting them. If the shoes are comfortable, then that is 95% of what is needed for most folks. We’re glad you like them and that simultaneously you gained distance, but there certainly could be other factors besides just the shoes.

^^This^^

We don't mean to beat you up @TexasSR75070, but as he said above you will find this forum is very skeptical of claims made by anyone that are not supported by REAL data. But don't worry about it, enjoy your Squairz, I am sure they're a great shoe. Just remember it could be worse, at least you didn't come forth with a "short game is more important than the long game argument"...then you would have gotten an earful!

[TexasSR75070]

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

But please don't come on here....... simultaneously making allegations, please, against others for "not putting in the research" or whatever it is that you said.

For that, I apologize. I was trying to make the point that there are studies out there, whether those here, including you, feel they are valid or not, that support distance claims made by Sqairz and others. I obviously went about it the wrong way.

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

Welcome (back) to the site.

Yes, it's been very welcoming so far.

[StuM]

8 hours ago, TexasSR75070 said:

If you don't think shoes can make a difference, go try and play in leather soled dress shoes. 

Let me ask a question. If Footjoy were to come out and say that the right golf shoe could add 9 yards, would you question it? 

Absolutely 

[KMP]

Sqairz improved my game by several strokes but I had to give them away because they made me so attractive to the ladies that my wife got jealous. 😛

[iacas]

1 hour ago, TexasSR75070 said:

Yes, it's been very welcoming so far.

Sarcasm aside, you referenced the "traction" a few times, so I'm curious if you think that most (all) of the benefit is from the pattern of nubs and spikes and such on the sole.

Because I don't see the sole as being all that unique among spiked golf shoes.

And I prefer spikeless anyway.

P.S. Sqairz sponsored the Hurricane Tour for at least the last two years my daughter played it, so I'm fairly familiar with them.

[TexasSR75070]

 

13 hours ago, iacas said:

I'm curious if you think that most (all) of the benefit is from the pattern of nubs and spikes and such on the sole.

Why would you want my opinion on anything having to do with these shoes? I have no particular expertise or knowledge in this area, and no real data to back up my opinion were I to express it.

[iacas]

54 minutes ago, TexasSR75070 said:

 

Why would you want my opinion on anything having to do with these shoes? I have no particular expertise or knowledge in this area, and no real data to back up my opinion were I to express it.

Because you’re such a pleasant guy.

[TexasSR75070]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

Because you’re such a pleasant guy.

Sarcasm aside, maybe that's because I've basically been called full of s***, a liar and accused of being a shill for the company.

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, TexasSR75070 said:

Sarcasm aside, maybe that's because I've basically been called full of s***, a liar and accused of being a shill for the company.

Let me go back to third grade and say “you started it.”  🤣 

You accused us of not doing our research, of believing whatever Titleist says. You misquoted several of us. You tried to insult us by talking about how active the forum is. You threw out your "I've gained seven yards" (paraphrased) as if it's due much weight.

All over golf shoes.

We are glad you like them. But us not liking them doesn't mean we haven't done our research, that we just believe anything Titleist says, that we don't understand GRF, etc.

Hell, many here (including me) wear TRUE Linkswear. They're minimalist shoes, moreso, and not one of the "big" brands.

[woodzie264]

I’m just thankful I can just go buy a pair of golf shoes and drop my handicap to a 5