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Scott Piercy's Swing Is a Case Point You Don't Have to Pull Handle for Lag


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This site many times has mentioned why pulling down on the handle is not the optimal way to produce lag. 

I was looking at Scott Piercy’s swing and look. You see he’s kind of throwing out the angle at A4. But see the lag he has at A6

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ch8l6NFrlWS/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

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1 hour ago, nevets88 said:

This site many times has mentioned why pulling down on the handle is not the optimal way to produce lag.

I always looked at that advice as a feel that may work for some. Just as Erik says in one post about keeping your trail arm straight. You don’t of course, but that’s a feel many people can relate to. No?

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@nevets88 this video below kind of explains it.

 

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8 hours ago, nevets88 said:

This site many times has mentioned why pulling down on the handle is not the optimal way to produce lag. 

This site, as in TST? Yeah, generally not a fan of "pulling down on the handle" very much.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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6 hours ago, boogielicious said:

@nevets88 this video below kind of explains it.

 

Great link, Scott, thanks. Piggybacking off that, this Martin Chuck video I'm linking below shows the wrist cock/uncock rates for Ian Poulter and Rickie Fowler and you'll see both start uncocking the wrists pretty soon after A5. Rickie increases it from the top into 5 and Poulter stays the same, but they both start dumping that angle hard at some point after about A5.5. That Athletic Motion Golf video shows you can start uncocking it from the top right away (hopefully at an acceptable rate though). Would love to see some GEARS numbers on various world class players and their ulnar deviation rates throughout the swing. Dustin Johnson and Tiger in particular would be fun for me to see.

Anyway, agreed this is a key shallowing component, especially post A5, that most amateurs don't know about. 

The Chuck video below is specifically about palmar flexion. But pay attention to the "wrist cock" number here instead, which for some reason, has some weird degree setting on it. Not sure what that's about. Still though, it shows how accelerated the ulnar deviation gets post A5.5.

 

 

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Constantine

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This is all good refresher for me. I know I'm bad at the cupping and one of the things I needed to work on in the past was bowing. This is something I can work on without even hitting a ball.

KICK THE FLIP!!

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40 minutes ago, JetFan1983 said:

Anyway, agreed this is a key shallowing component, especially post A5, that most amateurs don't know about. 

Depending what you mean by "shallowing," both yes and no. 😄 

21 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

This is all good refresher for me. I know I'm bad at the cupping and one of the things I needed to work on in the past was bowing. This is something I can work on without even hitting a ball.

Cupping to the top is okay. Especially with a stronger grip.

See… day 4 here: 

Actually, @Jeremie Boop, you missed that whole thing I think. So you could look at all of the days.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Depending what you mean by "shallowing," both yes and no. 😄 

Ok, I think I understand. We're simply in a "it depends" area, right?

Constantine

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

Depending what you mean by "shallowing," both yes and no. 😄 

Cupping to the top is okay. Especially with a stronger grip.

See… day 4 here: 

Actually, @Jeremie Boop, you missed that whole thing I think. So you could look at all of the days.

The cupping I need to fix is on the downswing. Just looking at the most recent dtl video I took I can see it. It's not as horrible as it used to be, but definitely there.

I'll start that 30-day practice plan. I am really trying to be more intentional coming back this time instead of jumping right to playing golf and ingraining the bad habits again.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
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:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
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:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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2 minutes ago, JetFan1983 said:

Ok, I think I understand. We're simply in a "it depends" area, right?

For many, hinging (un-hinging) the wrists is almost a completely in-plane motion. It doesn't shallow or steepen the club. That's more about forearm roll.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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In my experience, far too much is often made out of wrist conditions as a deliberate lever to shallow the club. I could be wrong but wrist conditions are maybe a 5% causal lever at the most as far as shallowing or steepening or whatever. Address placement and global relative movement of the club/body/arms are far far far more causal. Overtraining wrist conditions in relative vacuum is a fool's errand.  

I have 'chicken winged' my left wrist to some solid ball striking this year to a point where I am not sure I can improve my driver strike quality further (welp, I am pretty darn happy).  

image.png

Vishal S.

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From the data I got, via Dr Kwon, maximum wrist cock occurs (on average from the elite players he measured with his system) just before A5.  Which aligns with the kinematic sequence of starting the downswing with the lower body. 

Regarding wrist conditions, I remember reading/hearing about a pro using hack motion wrist sensors on touring pros and their playing styles. Those who had bowed lead wrists on the BS typically had good driver and long iron games. Those with flatter or cupped lead wrists typically had better mid irons and short game playing styles. Think DJ, Jon Rahm, Hovland, vs Tiger, PM.

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