2023 British Open

[Vinsk]

  On 7/25/2023 at 7:17 PM, turtleback said:

  On 7/24/2023 at 12:17 PM, Vinsk said:

 

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I know you were kidding, but it's still worth mentioning that outliers rarely serve as a solid basis for drawing conclusions.

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Right. Yet in the world of golf, the top shelf of PGAT players who hit it soooo long are in fact, outliers. But here comes the dopes like Jack who think it’s so needed. It’s not. Golf wins. Always. 

[turtleback]

  On 7/26/2023 at 2:35 AM, Vinsk said:

Right. Yet in the world of golf, the top shelf of PGAT players who hit it soooo long are in fact, outliers. But here comes the dopes like Jack who think it’s so needed. It’s not. Golf wins. Always. 

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But that wasn't the issue Jack was addressing.  He wasn't advocating it on the basis that the outlier long drivers got an advantage.  He was advocating it because in the first year driving distance was tracked, 1980, the top guy averaged 274.  By 1997 John Daly became the first one to average over 300.  In 2021 Bryson DeChambeau averaged 320 and the tour as a whole averaged 295, more than 20 yards longer than the top guy in 1980.

His point being that the increasing distance made longer courses necessary, and longer courses require more land.  And more land increases the cost of golf.

So it had absolutely nothing to do with outliers.  So maybe Jack wasn't the dope.

[Carl3]

  On 7/25/2023 at 11:53 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

They list him at 5'7"... I have to say he doesn't look that tall to me. 

I've never worked as one of those guys who guesses your height and weight at the county fair. But, if I had to guess I'd bet he's closer to 5'5" ... 

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The roster for our HS football team that was published in the program listed us all a little taller and heavier than we were🤣. Propaganda to intimidate the opponent. I was thinking the same thing: 5'-5", maybe 130 lbs?

Edited July 26, 2023 by Carl3

[Vinsk]

  On 7/26/2023 at 6:40 AM, turtleback said:

His point being that the increasing distance made longer courses necessary, and longer courses require more land.  And more land increases the cost of golf.

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They are outliers in the world of golf. Along with the massive 20yd gain over 41 years…how has the scoring reflected? Has BD made Augusta obsolete?
 

You’re making the classic mistake of looking at numbers and disregarding what’s actually taking place. The best golfers in the world still make bogeys and short knockers still win tournaments…even majors. Name one course that is obsolete because PGAT players hit it so long. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Vinsk

[saevel25]

  On 7/26/2023 at 12:12 PM, Vinsk said:

They are outliers in the world of golf. Along with the massive 20yd gain over 41 years…how has the scoring reflected? Has BD made Augusta obsolete?
 

You’re making the classic mistake of looking at numbers and disregarding what’s actually taking place. The best golfers in the world still make bogeys and short knockers still win tournaments…even majors. Name one course that is obsolete because PGAT players hit it so long. 

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They did lengthen Augusta National. A lot of golf courses have. I am not for roll backs. I can understand some of the reasons why. 

No one can gauge the long ball on links courses in areas prone to wind and rain more so than sunny days. Weather can drastically decrease all scoring. 

[ChetlovesMer]

  On 7/26/2023 at 12:12 PM, Vinsk said:

They are outliers in the world of golf. Along with the massive 20yd gain over 41 years…how has the scoring reflected? Has BD made Augusta obsolete?
 

You’re making the classic mistake of looking at numbers and disregarding what’s actually taking place. The best golfers in the world still make bogeys and short knockers still win tournaments…even majors. Name one course that is obsolete because PGAT players hit it so long. 

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I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But this is off topic. 
This discussion belongs here:

 

[boogielicious]

I think the course set up and weather really dictated the strategy and negated some of the advantages for the longer hitters. Harman took advantage of that on Friday and played it smart Saturday and Sunday. Rory used his length at the Scottish Open, but it didn’t help at Liverpool. 

[snapfade]

😃

[Vinsk]

  On 7/26/2023 at 7:17 PM, boogielicious said:

I think the course set up and weather really dictated the strategy and negated some of the advantages for the longer hitters. Harman took advantage of that on Friday and played it smart Saturday and Sunday. Rory used his length at the Scottish Open, but it didn’t help at Liverpool. 

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No, no, no. We can’t rely on those aspects for golf. If we can’t make the courses longer they will become obsolete! In fact, golf will become the easiest sport out there! 

[turtleback]

  On 7/26/2023 at 12:12 PM, Vinsk said:

They are outliers in the world of golf. Along with the massive 20yd gain over 41 years…how has the scoring reflected? Has BD made Augusta obsolete?
 

You’re making the classic mistake of looking at numbers and disregarding what’s actually taking place. The best golfers in the world still make bogeys and short knockers still win tournaments…even majors. Name one course that is obsolete because PGAT players hit it so long. 

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Tiger made Augusta obsolete, and to stay relevant they had to dramatically lengthen it and redesign it.  Remember Tiger-proofing?  It would absolutely by obsolete if today's equipment were used on the 1975 version of the course that gave us the dramatic Nicklaus-Miller-Weiskopf battle.

Edited July 27, 2023 by turtleback

[Vinsk]

  On 7/27/2023 at 7:11 AM, turtleback said:

Tiger made Augusta obsolete, and to stay relevant they had to dramatically lengthen it and redesign it.  Remember Tiger-proofing?  It would absolutely by obsolete if today's equipment were used on the 1975 version of the course that gave us the dramatic Nicklaus-Miller-Weiskopf battle.

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Well, obsolete to whom? By what standard? Jack could hit drives +300yds in 1975. Again, golf wins every time. Today’s equipment played in 1975 would still yield a winner, a choker, missed cuts and players complaining of unfair set ups. And you seem to only mention Augusta. And you said Augusta needed to ‘Tiger proof’ its course. Tiger isn’t /wasn’t an outlier? They made a decision based on one player’s performance? 

[boogielicious]

  On 7/27/2023 at 11:44 AM, Vinsk said:

Well, obsolete to whom? By what standard? Jack could hit drives +300yds in 1975. Again, golf wins every time. Today’s equipment played in 1975 would still yield a winner, a choker, missed cuts and players complaining of unfair set ups. And you seem to only mention Augusta. And you said Augusta needed to ‘Tiger proof’ its course. Tiger isn’t /wasn’t an outlier? They made a decision based on one player’s performance? 

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It wasn’t this Tiger.

It was this Tiger. He was Grrrrrrrrrrrreat!

I think that term “Tiger Proof” was more media hype that actual course changes. Tiger in his prime was the best iron player ever. It’s tough to have a course defend against that.

[Vinsk]

I enjoyed the British Open this year. I bet it would’ve been so much more entertaining if they had played with a rolled back golf ball. 🙄