Reading greens?

[purple monkey dishwasher]

What I started doing that seems to have helped.....I first stand behind the ball and check my line, then walk off the distance of the putt counting my steps and then check my line standing behind the cup. I can feel the slope in the green with my feet and get a much more accurate gauge on the distance.

[Voiceontapex]

i see the pros when they line up putts and stuff they hold the putter up in the air, what does this do? is it to help read the green? or to line up putts?

what exactly does holding the putter in the air up to your eyes do?

[iacas]

what exactly does holding the putter in the air up to your eyes do?

It's called plumb bobbing, and it accomplishes nothing. Some people think it shows you which way the green breaks, but it relies on your subliminal feeling about which way the green breaks already.

I think it makes you look stupid and, again, it doesn't make any logical or physical (as in physics) sense.

[clubhousehero]

I'd just like to say that looking at everything around the green has helped my putting alot. I used to never be able to read greens but now i look for the nearest body of water to help me determin break. It has helped me more than almost any advice i've been given so far.

[MS256]

After talking about green reading in another thread I noticed this morning as I was changing holes just how much of a "homer" I really am.

When replacing the plug there is usually water in the hole that comes out and forms a puddle around the plug where the old hole was.

I always take my right foot and step on the plug with a rolling action to squeegee the water away in the direction the green is sloping. I do it with no thought at all and I am never wrong about which way I need to the water to go, even in areas where there is almost no perceptible slope. Some of those areas are even tricky enough that I don't see any first time players at the course that read it correctly.

Not a chance in the world I would be able to guess the direction of slope that accurately on greens I don't know.

This may be hard for me to describe so anybody can understand it but I'll give it a shot:

The hardest reads for me are when the ball is above the hole and between the ball and the hole the slope is catty cornered. It is obviously sloping either left to right or right to left but it is also obviously sloping down so the ball is above the hole but offset to one side.

If the latter slope has more effect the putt can be straight or even break the opposite way from the slope from side to side. If the slope from side to side has more effect of course the putt will break the way it dictates. Those putts are usually head scratchers and guessing games for me if I don't know the greens.

Strangely I had quite a few putts last week while I was on vacation that were in exactly that type of situation. I misread most of them and didn't putt with much conviction either (which is just as costly).

[iacas]

I always take my right foot and step on the plug with a rolling action to squeegee the water away in the direction the green is sloping. I do it with no thought at all and I am never wrong about which way I need to the water to go, even in areas where there is almost no perceptible slope. Some of those areas are even tricky enough that I don't see any first time players at the course that read it correctly.

Imperceptible to you… Not to someone who knows what they're doing. The only areas on the golf course (on a putting green) that are going to be flat are the tops of crowns, and even those are usually tilted slightly. They have to be at least 1% slope* (tees 1.5%) to allow for drainage.

Not a chance in the world I would be able to guess the direction of slope that accurately on greens I don't know.

All the more reason to learn some AimPoint.

The hardest reads for me are when the ball is above the hole and between the ball and the hole the slope is catty cornered. It is obviously sloping either left to right or right to left but it is also obviously sloping down so the ball is above the hole but offset to one side.

If the latter slope has more effect the putt can be straight or even break the opposite way from the slope from side to side. If the slope from side to side has more effect of course the putt will break the way it dictates. Those putts are usually head scratchers and guessing games for me if I don't know the greens.

Yeah, you're right: I don't know what you mean. :) Slopes can only go one direction at a time and a ball will always turn towards downhill.

Perhaps draw a picture?

* Does not necessarily apply to all desert courses, where drainage is not a big concern.

[JetFan1983]

Disregard everything I've said in this thread. Less than a year into golf when I made that post. LOL.

Edit: I guess it's not that bad. The "sun" comment however can be flushed down the ol' toilet

[Golfingdad]

The hardest reads for me are when the ball is above the hole and between the ball and the hole the slope is catty cornered. It is obviously sloping either left to right or right to left but it is also obviously sloping down so the ball is above the hole but offset to one side.

With Aimpoint, these putts are very, very easy to read.  Not trying to brag (ok, maybe a little) but:  You could give me a blindfold, put me at the midpoint of the putt and orient me somehow, and the only other info I'd need is the length of the putt and in about 8 seconds I could tell you exactly** how much it breaks.  (As long as you let me take off the blindfold to peek at my chart)

The ones that are hardest to read using Aimpoint (for me) are the ones that are closest to flat.

Admittedly, that's a tad hyperbolic there.  I've previously estimated the stimp as best as I could, and the putt is likely not going to be exactly 15 or 20 feet, nor exactly at

If the latter slope has more effect the putt can be straight or even break the opposite way from the slope from side to side.

Yeah, I agree with Erik ... I have no idea what you mean by this.

Disregard everything I've said in this thread. Less than a year into golf when I made that post. LOL.

Not everything, don't be so hard on yourself.  Look, you got a couple of things right:

1. Putts

I totally agree.

... I'm wrong!

[JetFan1983]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Disregard everything I've said in this thread. Less than a year into golf when I made that post. LOL.

Not everything, don't be so hard on yourself.  Look, you got a couple of things right:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

1. Putts

I totally agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

... I'm wrong!

Made that post in 2009. Less than a year into golf. All I'm saying:

[MS256]

Imperceptible to you… Not to someone who knows what they're doing. The only areas on the golf course (on a putting green) that are going to be flat are the tops of crowns, and even those are usually tilted slightly. They have to be at least 1% slope* (tees 1.5%) to allow for drainage.

All the more reason to learn some AimPoint.

Yeah, you're right: I don't know what you mean. :) Slopes can only go one direction at a time and a ball will always turn towards downhill.

Perhaps draw a picture?

* Does not necessarily apply to all desert courses, where drainage is not a big concern.

I didn't figure anybody would. Oh well, I gave it my best shot.

[LeftyTrevor]

I usually just can imagine a line going from my ball to the hole and try to start it out on that line. I have been looking into the Aim Point and think I may try to take a class on it.

[saevel25]

I usually just can imagine a line going from my ball to the hole and try to start it out on that line. I have been looking into the Aim Point and think I may try to take a class on it.

Yea, the surrounding contours, landscape, and how the hole is cut can all throw that off. Best method out there is Aimpoint, you will not regret it. But like any other golf skill, you must practice it.

[Golfingdad]

I usually just can imagine a line going from my ball to the hole and try to start it out on that line.

This is great - visualizing the shot is always good, I believe.  However, this is something that occurs AFTER the actual reading of the green.  How do you determine that line?

[billchao]

But like any other golf skill, you must practice it.

Totally. I took another AimPoint Express class with Erik and was off on my numbers. I've made a promise to myself that I will reinforce my feels on the practice green before every round just to make sure I get it right.

[Patch]

Not everyone strokes their putts the exact same way, and not everyone sees the same things on the greens in the same way.  Those two things determine how an individual will read the green. Knowing the speed, seeing the slopes (if any) , and knowing how the grain (if any)  will effect the putt are things I try to work on.

I start out on the practice green putting balls across the green. This gives me some idea of the speed. Once on the course I hope to have speed (sort of) dialed in before the 4th hole.

Seeing the slopes is an art that needs to be practiced. A good pair of amber tinted sun glasses seems  to help me. I have heard other folks say gray tints work well too.

As for the grain, I will look at the rim of the cup. The side of the cup that has longer grass hanging over the edge gives me a start on seeing  the grain. From there I will give the green a good look see, looking for dull, and shiny  areas. Finally it has been my experience that grass grows towards the sun. I will sometimes look at the edge of the green where the grass is longer to see which way it is facing. Grain is important because it effects the aim point, and  how much force should be used.

Reading greens is just something a golfer needs to develop on their own. There have been instances where I have been on some very slow greens. When they are really slow I will use my 500 gram putter instead of my lighter one.

Of course one of the cons of reading a green proficiently is that it will add more time to a round of golf. Depending on how important the round is, will determine how much time I spend on reading a green. The length of the putt also determines how much time, if any, I will spend on the read.

[Abu3baid]

Not everyone strokes their putts the exact same way, and not everyone sees the same things on the greens in the same way.  Those two things determine how an individual will read the green. Knowing the speed, seeing the slopes (if any) , and knowing how the grain (if any)  will effect the putt are things I try to work on.

I agree not everyone strokes everyone the same way and they don't see the same things and that is why they shouldn't rely just on what they see.. I don't really think the grain has that much impact on putting.

Seeing the slopes is an art that needs to be practiced. A good pair of amber tinted sun glasses seems  to help me. I have heard other folks say gray tints work well too.

I think if someone is really relying on what they see to determine reading the slopes they will be in for a long day putting every time out.. I don't know about the sun glasses thingy, but I am skeptical to say the least regarding that actually helping..

As for the grain, I will look at the rim of the cup. The side of the cup that has longer grass hanging over the edge gives me a start on seeing  the grain. From there I will give the green a good look see, looking for dull, and shiny  areas. Finally it has been my experience that grass grows towards the sun. I will sometimes look at the edge of the green where the grass is longer to see which way it is facing. Grain is important because it effects the aim point, and  how much force should be used.

If you already know the speed of the green.. (stimp) 8,9,10 {what ever} then why what is the point of knowing the grain??  I don't have time to go check out the cup and see which way the grass is pointing, or to look around for dull or shiny areas (I don't even know what that means).. I guess I just disagree that knowing which way the grain is pointing has anything to do with where I am aiming!

Reading greens is just something a golfer needs to develop on their own. There have been instances where I have been on some very slow greens. When they are really slow I will use my 500 gram putter instead of my lighter one.

I don't think golfers need to develop that on their own.. they can take Aimpoint Express?

You use a heavier putter on slower greens?  I was always under the assumption that faster greens need heavier putters because when you use a light putter on a fast green it is much harder to get good touch, and you will naturally hit it harder.. but if that works for you then no issue, it just goes against what I've learned so I thought it was interesting that's all.

Of course one of the cons of reading a green proficiently is that it will add more time to a round of golf. Depending on how important the round is, will determine how much time I spend on reading a green. The length of the putt also determines how much time, if any, I will spend on the read.

I spend almost no time at all reading greens now.. no one I'm playing with actually knows that I am reading the green, because I don't go behind the hole, I don't stand there lining up my putt, I don't walk back and forth.. this is what I do..

from 0 - 5 feet I stand behind the ball for about 5 seconds, aim for about 2 seconds and then set up for my shot and I putt in less than 20 seconds... all together we are talking about less than 30 seconds

from >5 feet I go to the middle of my putt length to the "low side" (that I observed and confirm it by standing there for 5 seconds) then go back to my ball, aim and putt again in less than 30 seconds..

there are some other things I might do for double breakers and longer than 30 feet, but it will rarely take me more than 30 seconds all together.. and all this with no regard to how important or not the match is as my routine doesn't change!

I played 2 days ago and I knew the break of the putt 18 out of 18 holes and I spent 5 seconds either behind the ball or the midpoint of the length of the putt..

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Patch

Not everyone strokes their putts the exact same way, and not everyone sees the same things on the greens in the same way.  Those two things determine how an individual will read the green. Knowing the speed, seeing the slopes (if any) , and knowing how the grain (if any)  will effect the putt are things I try to work on.

You should stop working on the grain stuff. It doesn't matter much except to change the effective green speed. Straight into the grain a green that is normally a 9 will play like an 8. Straight down grain a green that's normally a 9 will play like a 10. Grain grows downhill 99% of the time.

Seeing the slopes is an art that needs to be practiced. A good pair of amber tinted sun glasses seems  to help me. I have heard other folks say gray tints work well too.

Take an AimPoint class.

Seriously… it doesn't require too much practice, and you are using two VERY unreliable things to help you read greens: your eyes.

As for the grain, I will look at the rim of the cup. The side of the cup that has longer grass hanging over the edge gives me a start on seeing  the grain. From there I will give the green a good look see, looking for dull, and shiny  areas. Finally it has been my experience that grass grows towards the sun. I will sometimes look at the edge of the green where the grass is longer to see which way it is facing. Grain is important because it effects the aim point, and  how much force should be used.

Grain is largely irrelevant. The slope right at the hole is also not terribly relevant. How much can a putt break in the last three feet? An inch? Two?

Reading greens is just something a golfer needs to develop on their own. There have been instances where I have been on some very slow greens. When they are really slow I will use my 500 gram putter instead of my lighter one.

Two comments to that:

1. I can teach a kid how to read greens in an hour better than you. Kid doesn't even need golf experience. Go find an AimPoint Express class.
2. For the vast majority of people, that's the opposite of what you should do. Heavier putters are better on fast greens.

Of course one of the cons of reading a green proficiently is that it will add more time to a round of golf. Depending on how important the round is, will determine how much time I spend on reading a green. The length of the putt also determines how much time, if any, I will spend on the read.

If you use AimPoint, this is incorrect. Reads are done in a fraction of the time of someone crouching, walking around to the other side of the hole, looking at the grain by the cup, etc.

[boogielicious]

@Patch ,

AimPoint is a very fast, accurate method.  I can do my read in 10-15 seconds.  Most players that play with me don't even realize I am using it.  Check out a class.  You will not regret it.