Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

[Mulligan Jeff]

Nobody is perfect and besides people in America get second chances - from sports figures to celebrities to Presidents, etc.

[boogielicious]

I read this the other day and it sealed the deal for me:

Allow me To "Once and For All to Put to Death the Myth that Jack Nicklaus is the Greatest Player in the History of the Game of Golf" for Good!

World Wide Wins - Tiger 88, Jack 79.

PGA Tour Wins- Tiger 77, Jack 73.

European Tour Wins- Tiger 8, Jack 0.

Player of the Year- Tiger 10, Jack 5.

PGA Tour Money Titles- Tiger 9, Jack 8.

Vardon Trophy Scoring Titles- Tiger 8, Jack 0!

Most Wins per Season Titles- Tiger 11, Jack 5.

Most Wins in a Season - Tiger 9, Jack 7.

Most Consecutive Cuts Made in a Row- Tiger 142, Jack 109.

Missed Cuts- Tiger 10, Jack 88

Career Scoring Avg- Tiger 68.75, Jack 70.28 (Thru age 36 for Both)

Major Championships- Tiger 14 of 60, Jack 18 of 112 (thru age 49 only)

World Golf Championships- Tiger 18 of 45. Jack Nothing Comparable at all.

Excellent post.  I'm not sure it will convince anyone, but you set forth a compelling argument with data.  My position is Tiger's career is not over yet.  When it is complete, we should have a better idea of the complete comparison.

[mmoan2]

Excellent post.  I'm not sure it will convince anyone, but you set forth a compelling argument with data.  My position is Tiger's career is not over yet.  When it is complete, we should have a better idea of the complete comparison.

Thanks, I wish I came up with the data myself! I stumbled across it while reading the Review of Tiger's EA Sports 2014 game on this site. The issue is closed for me after reading that, though.

[jamo]

Thanks, I wish I came up with the data myself! I stumbled across it while reading the Review of Tiger's EA Sports 2014 game on this site. The issue is closed for me after reading that, though.

I wrote the review, so I just went back and read it, wondering how I snuck that into a review of a video game. Turns out it was a commenter: http://thesandtrap.com/b/tvmedia/tiger_woods_pga_tour_14_review :-D

[buddhabob]

No contest. Nicklaus is far greater. Far more control,consistency and mental power and discipline. Tiger seems like an hysterical drama queen on the  course, a Gloria Swanson type. He is the greatest garbage player of all time because he is never in the fairway. I would rate Hogan and Snead higher than Tigress who can never come from behind to win any major. Check out the come from behind stuff Nicklaus pulled off and that was back against Miller,Watson,Palmer,Player, - a far deeper field at the top.  For years Mickelson was the Tigress's only competition and he was a wild head case with a looping swing that guaranteed inconsistency. and a whole string of meltdowns. I'm afraid most are just victims of media hype and the demands of the Golf industry which has ridden the hindquarters of Woods from the beginning.

Regarding distance, Nicklaus in his prime today would be hitting it 40 yds further on average and even straighter. A topflight ball carries 30 yds more than the ones of yester year and the titanium trampoline drivers add another 15 easy. More importantly, not only would Nicklaus be 330 off the tee consistently and with a yawn but he would be dead center of the fairway  and would control ball trajectory far better than the Tigress. Nicklaus only slightly modified his  swing as  he grew older. There is  a reason for that, its  called maintaining consistency. And finally the Woods body is already breaking down and will never be the same. The knees are seriously vulnerable, and the back now is going. All the weightlifting has been counterproductive, sorry. He does not hit it as far as he easily hit it back before he started pumping for the girls in 98'. Thats an image thing and it does not intimidate. Jack intimidated and was the most feared golfer of all time. Guys had whiplash in every major just waiting for Jack to mount a charge. Hogan was next. Who really fears the Tigress in a major today? That generation has died off, the new kids in town have no respect nor should they.

[Jakester23]

Hey bob maybe you should put the bong down and watch some golf.

[Ernest Jones]

No contest. Nicklaus is far greater. Far more control,consistency and mental power and discipline. Tiger seems like an hysterical drama queen on the  course, a Gloria Swanson type. He is the greatest garbage player of all time because he is never in the fairway. I would rate Hogan and Snead higher than Tigress who can never come from behind to win any major. Check out the come from behind stuff Nicklaus pulled off and that was back against Miller,Watson,Palmer,Player, - a far deeper field at the top.  For years Mickelson was the Tigress's only competition and he was a wild head case with a looping swing that guaranteed inconsistency. and a whole string of meltdowns. I'm afraid most are just victims of media hype and the demands of the Golf industry which has ridden the hindquarters of Woods from the beginning. Regarding distance, Nicklaus in his prime today would be hitting it 40 yds further on average and even straighter. A topflight ball carries 30 yds more than the ones of yester year and the titanium trampoline drivers add another 15 easy. More importantly, not only would Nicklaus be 330 off the tee consistently and with a yawn but he would be dead center of the fairway  and would control ball trajectory far better than the Tigress. Nicklaus only slightly modified his  swing as  he grew older. There is  a reason for that, its  called maintaining consistency. And finally the Woods body is already breaking down and will never be the same. The knees are seriously vulnerable, and the back now is going. All the weightlifting has been counterproductive, sorry. He does not hit it as far as he easily hit it back before he started pumping for the girls in 98'. Thats an image thing and it does not intimidate. Jack intimidated and was the most feared golfer of all time. Guys had whiplash in every major just waiting for Jack to mount a charge. Hogan was next. Who really fears the Tigress in a major today? That generation has died off, the new kids in town have no respect nor should they.

I respect everyone's opinion in this debate because their seems to be no definitive answer at this point in time, but this post... :doh:

[Golfingdad]

I respect everyone's opinion in this debate because their seems to be no definitive answer at this point in time, but this post...

lol ... My favorite line:

"... a far deeper field at the top. "

Ummm, not sure how to tell you this Bob, but that doesn't make any sense at all.  ;)

[turtleback]

No contest. Nicklaus is far greater. Far more control,consistency and mental power and discipline. Tiger seems like an hysterical drama queen on the  course, a Gloria Swanson type. He is the greatest garbage player of all time because he is never in the fairway. I would rate Hogan and Snead higher than Tigress who can never come from behind to win any major. Check out the come from behind stuff Nicklaus pulled off and that was back against Miller,Watson,Palmer,Player, - a far deeper field at the top.  For years Mickelson was the Tigress's only competition and he was a wild head case with a looping swing that guaranteed inconsistency. and a whole string of meltdowns. I'm afraid most are just victims of media hype and the demands of the Golf industry which has ridden the hindquarters of Woods from the beginning.

Regarding distance, Nicklaus in his prime today would be hitting it 40 yds further on average and even straighter. A topflight ball carries 30 yds more than the ones of yester year and the titanium trampoline drivers add another 15 easy. More importantly, not only would Nicklaus be 330 off the tee consistently and with a yawn but he would be dead center of the fairway  and would control ball trajectory far better than the Tigress. Nicklaus only slightly modified his  swing as  he grew older. There is  a reason for that, its  called maintaining consistency. And finally the Woods body is already breaking down and will never be the same. The knees are seriously vulnerable, and the back now is going. All the weightlifting has been counterproductive, sorry. He does not hit it as far as he easily hit it back before he started pumping for the girls in 98'. Thats an image thing and it does not intimidate. Jack intimidated and was the most feared golfer of all time. Guys had whiplash in every major just waiting for Jack to mount a charge. Hogan was next. Who really fears the Tigress in a major today? That generation has died off, the new kids in town have no respect nor should they.

The fact that you cannot make your case without name-calling pretty much tells us everything we need to know about you.

[BruceMGF]

lol ... My favorite line:

"... a far deeper field at the top."

Sounds a bit Yogi-Berra-ish, doesn't it?

Further comments welcome.  This thread isn't over 'til it's over.

[Jakester23]

I want someone to explain how Jack would be hitting it 330 and right in the middle every time. I just don't see the evidence to support that claim.

[Fourputt]

I want someone to explain how Jack would be hitting it 330 and right in the middle every time. I just don't see the evidence to support that claim.

I wouldn't worry about it.  The guy was apparently dropped on his head a couple of times as a child and never fully recovered.

Jack would be competitive with the big hitters if he was in his playing prime today.  And he was known as an accurate driver.  How that would translate if he was consistently hitting 30 yards farther, I don't know, but he would likely still beat Tiger for driving accuracy.

[buddhabob]

lots of constipation on this blog. Eat more bran fellas, maybe it will help. You have been brainwashed by wall-to-wall Tiger coverage for the last 15 years. and are addicted to hero worship.Calling me nuts on a site like this is a complement, thank you.  It is far too cognitively dissonant for you now to think outside the box. Nicklaus was a far more consistent gamer and his competition was much more keen than the drama queen's. The Tigress is simply incapable of keeping the ball in the fairway. Casual observation by a half blind child of 8 would tell you that. With 90% certainty if you tighten fairways and grow the rough, the Tigress drops far,far down the leaderboard and out of site. You do that to a Hogan, a Sneed or a Nicklaus and they separate themselves from the field and elevate their games. Each new generation wants to believe that their particular media idol is 'the one'. Objectivity is lost and in floods the mind-wash. Its so obvious its ludicrous.

[Fourputt]

lots of constipation on this blog. Eat more bran fellas, maybe it will help. You have been brainwashed by wall-to-wall Tiger coverage for the last 15 years. and are addicted to hero worship.Calling me nuts on a site like this is a complement, thank you.  It is far too cognitively dissonant for you now to think outside the box. Nicklaus was a far more consistent gamer and his competition was much more keen than the drama queen's. The Tigress is simply incapable of keeping the ball in the fairway. Casual observation by a half blind child of 8 would tell you that. With 90% certainty if you tighten fairways and grow the rough, the Tigress drops far,far down the leaderboard and out of site. You do that to a Hogan, a Sneed or a Nicklaus and they separate themselves from the field and elevate their games. Each new generation wants to believe that their particular media idol is 'the one'. Objectivity is lost and in floods the mind-wash. Its so obvious its ludicrous.

Talk about looking at the world through rose colored glasses.  If Jack stops walking too quickly you'll probably suffocate.

Jack Nicklaus has always been my golfing idol, but that doesn't make me so blind that I can't see what other's have accomplished.  Tiger is head to head with Jack at this point, and only physical limitation will keep him from passing Jack in the next few years.  You are the one who is struggling to see the real world through your transparent hatred of Tiger.

[buddhabob]

whoever you are, your projecting. I have little concern one way or another for Woods. When he plays well I enjoy watching, when he doesn't it can be embarrassing as no less than Tom Watson has mentioned when viewing his antics and poor sportsmanship on the course.  There is no question that Tiger Woods has generated more income for more people in the golf industry than any other figure in history. This however does not make him the games greatest, not at all.  I idolize no one, certainly not in a game where you knock a small ball around outside. In fact when I was a kid I did not 'like' Nicklaus as he stole Palmer's fire. Everybody in the herd was in Arnie's Army back then. Then I grew up, studied logic and statistics at University and learned to appreciate reality.

[MS256]

whoever you are, your projecting. I have little concern one way or another for Woods. When he plays well I enjoy watching, when he doesn't it can be embarrassing as no less than Tom Watson has mentioned when viewing his antics and poor sportsmanship on the course.  There is no question that Tiger Woods has generated more income for more people in the golf industry than any other figure in history. This however does not make him the games greatest, not at all.  I idolize no one, certainly not in a game where you knock a small ball around outside. In fact when I was a kid I did not 'like' Nicklaus as he stole Palmer's fire. Everybody in the herd was in Arnie's Army back then. Then I grew up, studied logic and statistics at University and learned to appreciate reality.

"Logic" says that since good high school athletes now routinely better what were once world records from Jack's time period in every measureable sport, and because the size of any talent pool increases the depth of good players at the top of that pool, that something harder to measure like golf would be the same.

The athletes I competed against in high school and college didn't even come close to the ones my son competed against. They are simply bigger, stronger, faster, and better trained today.

(And that includes golfers).

[turtleback]

whoever you are, your projecting. I have little concern one way or another for Woods. When he plays well I enjoy watching, when he doesn't it can be embarrassing as no less than Tom Watson has mentioned when viewing his antics and poor sportsmanship on the course.  There is no question that Tiger Woods has generated more income for more people in the golf industry than any other figure in history. This however does not make him the games greatest, not at all.  I idolize no one, certainly not in a game where you knock a small ball around outside. In fact when I was a kid I did not 'like' Nicklaus as he stole Palmer's fire. Everybody in the herd was in Arnie's Army back then. Then I grew up, studied logic and statistics at University and learned to appreciate reality.

You should have studied geometry.  The idea that with modern equipment Jack would be able to ht it 330 without a significant dropoff in fairways hit is laughable to anyone who grasps the most basic concepts of trigonometry.  Your ignorance of mathematics coupled with your obsession with name-calling shows you to be both ignorant and immature.

[MS256]

You should have studied geometry.  The idea that with modern equipment Jack would be able to ht it 330 without a significant dropoff in fairways hit is laughable to anyone who grasps the most basic concepts of trigonometry.  Your ignorance of mathematics coupled with your obsession with name-calling shows you to be both ignorant and immature.

Just a possibility: Seems to me that the gain in distance with technology didn't translate equally to all golfers. The long hitters were still long but technology allowed others to catch up to them or even pass them. In essence technology deepened the field for distance.

Norman's driving stats against the rest of the Tour before and after persimmon drivers looks like it reflects some of that to me.