Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

[Ernest Jones]

Well it is clear that you don't encompass the whole of the game, just the mechanical, not the character and spirtual side of the game.  Your loss

Actually, that's not true, I put a ton of stock into the spiritual side of it but, unfortunately, there is no room on the score card for that and the score does the talking when you're discussing who is the better golfer IMO.

[Ernest Jones]

Actually, that's not true, I put a ton of stock into the spiritual side of it but, unfortunately, there is no room on the score card for that and the score does the talking when you're discussing who is the better golfer IMO.

I'll just add that if the question was, "who is the greater champion" I would include a lot more factors but my understand in is that the question is, "who is the greatest PLAYER" which IMO is not the same question.

[Rikoshay]

Well actually this is going to be the last post that I going to make on the subject.  But I believe like Bobby Jones that you have to have all the ingredients to be a "True Golfer".  I only play with the level

of players that play it as it lies, we play by the book.  To do this takes honestly and integrity, two things I don't think Tiger has, at least he has not demonstrated it.  You talk about the score card at the end of the day, well you can cheat your buns off and show your card as being a good golfer, but in reality you are not worth the paper it is printed on.  The game is not hitting the ball, the game is about who you are and  how you play the game.  It is a shame but the percentage of players who play the game by the book is less that 1 %, the rest of you who hack their way around the course and call it golf are just fooling yourselves and lying to the rest of us.  I wish everyone well and a Happy Holiday to you and your family as well as a safe one, but unless you can comprehend the whole game as it is then you need not send me a post.  Thank you and goodday..................R

[Ernest Jones]

Well actually this is going to be the last post that I going to make on the subject.  But I believe like Bobby Jones that you have to have all the ingredients to be a "True Golfer".  I only play with the level of players that play it as it lies, we play by the book.  To do this takes honestly and integrity, two things I don't think Tiger has, at least he has not demonstrated it.  You talk about the score card at the end of the day, well you can cheat your buns off and show your card as being a good golfer, but in reality you are not worth the paper it is printed on.  The game is not hitting the ball, the game is about who you are and  how you play the game.  It is a shame but the percentage of players who play the game by the book is less that 1 %, the rest of you who hack their way around the course and call it golf are just fooling yourselves and lying to the rest of us.  I wish everyone well and a Happy Holiday to you and your family as well as a safe one, but unless you can comprehend the whole game as it is then you need not send me a post.  Thank you and goodday..................R

Oh c'mon now @Rikoshay really? First off: 1) don't take all this stuff personally 2) don't assume that your golf is more righteous than anyone else's. Tiger Woods plays the ball down, I have never seen anything that convinces me otherwise. I'm guessing that you've been reading Chamblee articles. Chamblee is a used car salesman trying to get you behind the wheel of a repainted AMC Gremlin, don't buy it! ;-) I'm sure many of your "white knight" players of old we're not adverse to the odd bit of "road *****" but to automatically assume they cheat at golf is a huge leap and really shouldn't even be a part of the conversation as it has nothing to do with golf. Here's a comparative for you: I don't think anyone would deny that Mike Tyson is a world class douchebag, but the fact remains that during his prime he was the most feared man in the sport of boxing. GOAT? Definitely not but his douchey-ness is not in anyway a factor nor should it be with Tiger. Is Tiger a douche? From what I've observed he certainly had some douchey qualities (although I'm observing from a great distance through a lot of second hand knowledge) but who cares? The man is a dominant golfer, quite possibly the Greatest of All Time, so how about we just stick to that discussion and leave his morals out of it. And to imply that I cheat at golf because I don't agree with you on the Tiger vs Jack debate is weak sauce indeed. Find a better argument or don't bother.

[mvmac]

Well actually this is going to be the last post that I going to make on the subject.  But I believe like Bobby Jones that you have to have all the ingredients to be a "True Golfer".  I only play with the level

of players that play it as it lies, we play by the book.  To do this takes honestly and integrity, two things I don't think Tiger has, at least he has not demonstrated it.  You talk about the score card at the end of the day, well you can cheat your buns off and show your card as being a good golfer, but in reality you are not worth the paper it is printed on.

Not the topic of this thread, it's pretty obvious the theme of the thread is debating who the best golfer is.

The game is not hitting the ball, the game is about who you are and  how you play the game.  It is a shame but the percentage of players who play the game by the book is less that 1 %, the rest of you who hack their way around the course and call it golf are just fooling yourselves and lying to the rest of us.

So the game isn't about hitting the ball but 99% of players that aren't real golfers are hacks.  Makes sense lol

[turtleback]

Well actually this is going to be the last post that I going to make on the subject.

Probably a good decision, because up to now your posts have been epic fails - both in the content and the presentation.

[flopster]

I would really like to see where Rikoshay gets his figures from that 99% of golfers cheat.

[Hammer 4]

I would really like to see where Rikoshay gets his figures from that 99% of golfers cheat.

Just a guess, but it may be in his mind...who knows. I could talk about cheaters, but that would be way OT.

[newtogolf]

Rikoshay is that grumpy old guy that sits on a bench in the park and whines about how easy the kids of today have it, and that when he played golf, he had to walk barefoot up glass covered fairways in the rain.

[bplewis24]

Actually, that's not true, I put a ton of stock into the spiritual side of it but, unfortunately, there is no room on the score card for that and the score does the talking when you're discussing who is the better golfer IMO.

I disagree.  I believe there is room on the scorecard for it, which is why Zach Johnson deserves a place in this discussion about the greatest golfers of all time.

[Ernest Jones]

I disagree.  I believe there is room on the scorecard for it, which is why Zach Johnson deserves a place in this discussion about the greatest golfers of all time.

Certainly greater than Jack, no question about that!

[metrybill]

Facts first, then analysis and opinion, and finally Golf in the Kingdom . Great thread.  So far, from a Majors and overall contribution to The Game, it's Jack looking back, slightly ahead  or at worst, even with only one person, and Jack left the Tour years ago.  In the end I think Tiger will have a Sam Snead + type win record and Nicklaus will have the Majors record.

I still don't like the fact that Tiger has never played every Tour venue at least once. A large portion of his wins have come on repeated courses.

Parting thought: In my opinion only, today's fields may be deeper through 125 but those fields are not as deep as the top was in the Nickiaus Era.  I think the 125-depth of fields is largely because of the money, opportunities, better training and teaching, equipment. Video, too. Remember, if you are old enough, Jack practically invented the yardage book and the pre-shot routine.

Again, it's a short list of two. By Tiger's own admission, Jack's record was and remains the target for ALL of today's golfers, just as Bobby Jones and Hogan were Nicklaus' standards.

[Jakester23]

Facts first, then analysis and opinion, and finally Golf in the Kingdom. Great thread.  So far, from a Majors and overall contribution to The Game, it's Jack looking back, slightly ahead  or at worst, even with only one person, and Jack left the Tour years ago.  In the end I think Tiger will have a Sam Snead + type win record and Nicklaus will have the Majors record.

I still don't like the fact that Tiger has never played every Tour venue at least once. A large portion of his wins have come on repeated courses.

Parting thought: In my opinion only, today's fields may be deeper through 125 but those fields are not as deep as the top was in the Nickiaus Era.  I think the 125-depth of fields is largely because of the money, opportunities, better training and teaching, equipment. Video, too. Remember, if you are old enough, Jack practically invented the yardage book and the pre-shot routine.

Again, it's a short list of two. By Tiger's own admission, Jack's record was and remains the target for ALL of today's golfers, just as Bobby Jones and Hogan were Nicklaus' standards.

Personally I think the fact that this is such a close debate now (Tiger only 37) kinda answers the question for me.  I disagree on the fact that most of his wins come on repeated courses. I actually think that is more impressive. How many years in a row did Jack play the same tournaments? The most tourneys Jack has won on one course is 6(masters).  Tigers has one 6 or more times at 3 different courses.  Most of the pros play similar schedules year to year but that just shows how dominate he has been up to this point in his career.  I also disagree completely disagree that the top of the fields aren't as deep now. If there is 40 guys with a chance to win every week now and in Jack's era there was 5 Im pretty sure that means its deeper at the top, middle, and bottom. I think as stated throughout this thread there is a real good argument for Jack as the GOAT as we sit today, but the fact that Tiger has a significant amount of time left to add to what he has already done makes him my choice.

[metrybill]

Thanks. But this is only a partial, cherry-picked-issue answer.  My Avatar should show that I am a fan of the Tiger the golfer. Not a big fan of Tiger the man.  Full disclosure.  I am trying to be objective.

In the end I think Tiger will have a Sam Snead + type win record and Nicklaus will have the Majors record.

I still don't like the fact that Tiger has never played every Tour venue at least once.

I think the 125-depth of fields is largely because of the money, opportunities, better training and teaching, equipment. Video, too. Remember, if you are old enough, Jack practically invented the yardage book and the pre-shot routine.

Again, it's a short list of two. By Tiger's own admission, Jack's record was and remains the target for ALL of today's golfers, just as Bobby Jones and Hogan were Nicklaus' standards.

[iacas]

I still don't like the fact that Tiger has never played every Tour venue at least once. A large portion of his wins have come on repeated courses.

Jack didn't play all of them either. He was the first person to focus heavily on the majors.

Tiger's won so many times on the same courses partly because he's won so many times, and the Tour's schedule is what it is. If you win nearly 80 tournaments it's tough not to win on the same courses four, five, six or more times.

Parting thought: In my opinion only, today's fields may be deeper through 125 but those fields are not as deep as the top was in the Nickiaus Era.

Jack Nicklaus disagrees with you.

Again, a hypothetical. Let's call Nicklaus an A player, and anyone a rung down a B player, and anyone a club pro type a C player. As compete often in majors, Bs can win them if they have a good week. Cs are never gonna win one.

In Jack's day there were, in any given year, 3-5 A players, 30 B players, and 120 C players.

In Tiger's day there are 5-20 A players, 150 B players, and no C players anywhere to be found. Not even on the Web.com Tour.

That's why majors get spread around these days.

[Jakester23]

Bill from what I understand Jacks standard was Sneads 82. I don't think the majors became a big deal to Jack (as far as number of wins) until after he already had the most.

[Rikoshay]

No I don't sit on a park bench, I'm usually out taking dweabs money on the golf course, I leave the walking in the grass

to 'Sports" like you................................  :)))

[iacas]

No I don't sit on a park bench, I'm usually out taking dweabs money on the golf course, I leave the walking in the grass

to 'Sports" like you................................  :)))

I think you said before that you were done posting in this thread? It'd probably be best if you stick to that decision… Calling people "dweabs" (is that like a dweeb?) isn't doing much to add to the discussion.