The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[poser]

Push draw is the stock shot but, doesn't mean you can't hit different shots by adjusting ball position.  I hit a push cut with the driver and a push draw with the irons.  Pull cuts are different for sure but, doesn't mean you still can't hit them with the pattern.

[jwalker497]

The S&T; DVDs teach you hot to hit both shots and using their principles, I can hit both shots not 100% but pretty consistent.  I naturally hit a fade and I am Right-Handed.  Only with S&T; was I able to hit a draw or a slightly left push   IMO S&T; favors a slight draw to begin with so everything they teach leans in that direction.  To hit a fade do the opposite as they teach.

[Jooma]

I frankly believe that S&T; is a perfect recipe for slices and pushes to the right.

This method is no good for a standard weekend golfer like me. To use S&T; to some successful degree requires exaggerated hands action at the impact in a vain effort to square the face of the club. As I understand it this action is required and caused by sliding of the lower part of the body, which in turn leaves the club face behind causing it to hit horrible, glanced, weak slice or in a best case a paralytic push to the right.

Perhaps natural ‘hookers’ of the ball will embrace this method, but how many natural hookers of the golf ball is there?

[carpediem4300]

I would probably read a little more on the subject before posting to be honest, as everything you have said to dismiss the pattern is the opposite of whats taught, and opposite of the results that pretty much everyone sees

Originally Posted by Jooma

I frankly believe that S&T; is a perfect recipe for slices and pushes to the right.

This method is no good for a standard weekend golfer like me. To use S&T; to some successful degree requires exaggerated hands action at the impact in a vain effort to square the face of the club. As I understand it this action is required and caused by sliding of the lower part of the body, which in turn leaves the club face behind causing it to hit horrible, glanced, weak slice or in a best case a paralytic push to the right.

Perhaps natural ‘hookers’ of the ball will embrace this method, but how many natural hookers of the golf ball is there?

[michaeljames92]

S&T; is a draw pattern. Done correctly your stock shot is a push draw. You need to do some research mate.

Quote:

I frankly believe that S&T; is a perfect recipe for slices and pushes to the right.

This method is no good for a standard weekend golfer like me. To use S&T; to some successful degree requires exaggerated hands action at the impact in a vain effort to square the face of the club. As I understand it this action is required and caused by sliding of the lower part of the body, which in turn leaves the club face behind causing it to hit horrible, glanced, weak slice or in a best case a paralytic push to the right.

Perhaps natural ‘hookers’ of the ball will embrace this method, but how many natural hookers of the golf ball is there?

[Zeph]

I've tried hitting a cut with the irons, but it usually ends in a push. It's easier with hybrid, woods and driver, but my hands always want to square up the irons. I sometimes miss with a push, but almost never a cut. I used to hit a big slice, but now I can hardly hit a cut. The driver is straight or a small fade.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Jooma

I frankly believe that S&T; is a perfect recipe for slices and pushes to the right.

This method is no good for a standard weekend golfer like me. To use S&T; to some successful degree requires exaggerated hands action at the impact in a vain effort to square the face of the club. As I understand it this action is required and caused by sliding of the lower part of the body, which in turn leaves the club face behind causing it to hit horrible, glanced, weak slice or in a best case a paralytic push to the right.

Perhaps natural ‘hookers’ of the ball will embrace this method, but how many natural hookers of the golf ball is there?

Here's a guess. Tell me if I'm right...

You "tried" S&T; on your own one time on the range. It didn't go so well, and you deduced that because you're just a weekend golfer, it'd require too much effort to "get."

Right?

The problem with that approach is that you invariably did some things improperly. If it feels handsy, you're doing it wrong. S&T; requires less hand action than a lot of swings (angled hinging versus more of a horizontal hinging action for those who know those terms).

Others have spoken but I'll add this: any student of ours who wants to draw the ball draws the ball. We'll teach a fade to those who want it, but correcting a slice is virtually the easiest thing to do.

[inthehole]

agreed & I can prove it (at least to myself) ... I went from a typical slicer to a draw by incorporating S&T; principles.

Originally Posted by michaeljames92

S&T; is a draw pattern. Done correctly your stock shot is a push draw. You need to do some research mate.

Quote:

[jwalker497]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

I would probably read a little more on the subject before posting to be honest, as everything you have said to dismiss the pattern is the opposite of whats taught, and opposite of the results that pretty much everyone sees

I would probably read a little more on the subject before posting to be honest, as everything you have said to dismiss the pattern is the opposite of whats taught, and opposite of the results that pretty much everyone sees

Originally Posted by Jooma

I frankly believe that S&T; is a perfect recipe for slices and pushes to the right.

This method is no good for a standard weekend golfer like me. To use S&T; to some successful degree requires exaggerated hands action at the impact in a vain effort to square the face of the club. As I understand it this action is required and caused by sliding of the lower part of the body, which in turn leaves the club face behind causing it to hit horrible, glanced, weak slice or in a best case a paralytic push to the right.

Perhaps natural ‘hookers’ of the ball will embrace this method, but how many natural hookers of the golf ball is there?

I agree with Carpediem, I watched all the videos and nowhere did I see any mention of hands, let alone exaggerrated hands.  Also, I found no mention of sliding lower body, the teach weight forward, period.   I am a weekend golfer as well.

[Precis1on]

Currently the hip slide/bump is one of the hardest things for me to get down in S&T.; Especially when I'm warmed up and looking to hit the ball harder, I will default to my old swing and instantly turn my hips rather than sliding, which ends up forcing my body to cut across the ball.

To help this, I've been working very hard on keeping my right heel on the ground and not allowing my right foot to go to the toe. My end position looks more like a rolling of the right foot. So far this looks like it helps me from turning my hips too quickly and allows me to slide them instead.

[carpediem4300]

Amen,

To back up what others are saying, i switched from a reg swing to a S&T; focused swing and the outcome?

1) - Slice has gone

2) - Shanks have gone

3) - i draw every club

4) - I take divots on every iron shot
5) - ive gone from a 28 handicap to a 17.2 in just under 2 months

Im not a S&T; fanboy just "bigging it up" either, ive tried it and it worked, i can make a regular swing work if i want, but alot less consistently

Originally Posted by jwalker497

I would probably read a little more on the subject before posting to be honest, as everything you have said to dismiss the pattern is the opposite of whats taught, and opposite of the results that pretty much everyone sees

I agree with Carpediem, I watched all the videos and nowhere did I see any mention of hands, let alone exaggerrated hands.  Also, I found no mention of sliding lower body, the teach weight forward, period.   I am a weekend golfer as well.

[carpediem4300]

the feel i tried for was to roll or bank the foot on the ball of my foot, this keeps my momentum going forward int he lower part of the body but helps eliminate the over turn of the hips

naturally it will come up at final position for balance etc, but as you i avoid going onto the toes at all costs

(As a reference watch phil mickleson's back foot on his downswing, it banks on the ball ;) )

Originally Posted by Precis1on

Currently the hip slide/bump is one of the hardest things for me to get down in S&T.; Especially when I'm warmed up and looking to hit the ball harder, I will default to my old swing and instantly turn my hips rather than sliding, which ends up forcing my body to cut across the ball.

To help this, I've been working very hard on keeping my right heel on the ground and not allowing my right foot to go to the toe. My end position looks more like a rolling of the right foot. So far this looks like it helps me from turning my hips too quickly and allows me to slide them instead.

[Precis1on]

Getting to figuring out the backswing now.

I felt like it was going all over the place for a while, until I saw the http://thesandtrap.com/t/30325/deep-hands-explained thread. Getting my hands deep gets my hands to the right place.

I'm getting to feeling the "mechanical"  part of the S&T; pattern. Hopefully, I will get to something that feels natural eventually, but for now, I go for my checkpoints.

[Green]

I have been enjoying learning about and implementing this swing.  Two of the components I have been unsure about are the hip slide and pushing off the ground on the downswing.  I understand the theoretical imperatives, but how do you get a feel for the rate of moving your hips forward and pushing off of the ground ?  Especially with pushing off, it seems to be on a knife's edge.  If you push off too quickly you can top the ball; not quickly enough and you can hit it fat.

I appreciate any help.

[carpediem4300]

dont try to hit it to hard

when i try and hit it to hard then what you mentioned happens, i either fire my hips to early and top it, or swing to quick and forget to fire my hips and hit it fat,

a nice tempo swing works best until your get confident to start speeding up

Originally Posted by Green

I have been enjoying learning about and implementing this swing.  Two of the components I have been unsure about are the hip slide and pushing off the ground on the downswing.  I understand the theoretical imperatives, but how do you get a feel for the rate of moving your hips forward and pushing off of the ground?  Especially with pushing off, it seems to be on a knife's edge.  If you push off too quickly you can top the ball; not quickly enough and you can hit it fat.

I appreciate any help.

[nevets88]

Just curious, any overhead videos of stack and tilt swings?

[J_Bone]

Originally Posted by Precis1on

Currently the hip slide/bump is one of the hardest things for me to get down in S&T.; Especially when I'm warmed up and looking to hit the ball harder, I will default to my old swing and instantly turn my hips rather than sliding, which ends up forcing my body to cut across the ball.

To help this, I've been working very hard on keeping my right heel on the ground and not allowing my right foot to go to the toe. My end position looks more like a rolling of the right foot. So far this looks like it helps me from turning my hips too quickly and allows me to slide them instead.

I have struggled with this part myself. I tend to fly open like I'm pulling a shot to left field. It's either a strait pull or a nasty hook.

Originally Posted by Jooma

Perhaps natural ‘hookers’ of the ball will embrace this method, but how many natural hookers of the golf ball is there?

Since day one!

[deronsizemore]

Originally Posted by iacas

Here's a guess. Tell me if I'm right...

You "tried" S&T; on your own one time on the range. It didn't go so well, and you deduced that because you're just a weekend golfer, it'd require too much effort to "get."

Right?

The problem with that approach is that you invariably did some things improperly. If it feels handsy, you're doing it wrong. S&T; requires less hand action than a lot of swings (angled hinging versus more of a horizontal hinging action for those who know those terms).

Was going to say this.

I tried S&T; about eight years ago before anyone even knew what it was. At the time, the guy who introduced it to me didn't give me much information about it besides "keep your weight on your left foot." I tried it and hit some good, some bad. I dismissed it shortly after that because I just didn't know a lot about it and it felt weird. It felt weird because I had no idea what I was doing. The bad thing is, I had no idea what I was doing when I was using my more "traditional" swing.

The same guy who introduced me to S&T; eight years ago has been giving me lessons the past few months and I'm telling you, when you have someone who knows what they're doing watching over you and putting you in the positions you need to be in it's completely different. I've learned more in three lessons than I have in the previous eight years when I would struggle with some fades one week, draws the next, and then a big slice off the edge of the planet the next week.

If you're doing it correctly, you will not slice the ball.