The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[outlaw1984]

I watched the Stack and Tilt dvds this morning and seen where Andy Plummer said that  keeping the weight on the forward foot and having the lateral move toward target was very important.....well im a big guy im 6'4 round 275 pounds....i find myself very hard to do these two things.....are they're a secret to keeping the weight on the forward foot and the lateral move? or am i going to have to move on and try to learn some other kind of method to hit the golf ball.....

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by outlaw1984

I watched the Stack and Tilt dvds this morning and seen where Andy Plummer said that  keeping the weight on the forward foot and having the lateral move toward target was very important.....well im a big guy im 6'4 round 275 pounds....i find myself very hard to do these two things.....are they're a secret to keeping the weight on the forward foot and the lateral move? or am i going to have to move on and try to learn some other kind of method to hit the golf ball.....

Well in terms of switching, it's going to impossible to find a good golfer that doesn't have the weight forward at impact.  Check out what Golf Evolution has been up to http://thesandtrap.com/t/55426/introducing-five-simple-keys

Keeping the weight centered on the backswing is about keeping the head steady, not moving it very much to and fro and making sure the hips don't slide to the right.  On the downswing the get the slide, you have to be adding pressure into the forward foot.  Feel like you're trying to squish a bug under your left foot.  Check out this swing and how he moves his left quad and left knee down and forward, towards the end of the backswing.

[Ernest Jones]

Played my first round of the year today, and while my score remained the same atrocious 100+ it was by far the greatest day of ball striking I have ever experience. The vast majority of my swings resulted in very solid contact and a forward divot .  I'm going to take it slow and follow the advice in the book, meaning that solid contact is the first priority. Really loving what SnT is doing for me so far, really felt my arms releasing in a straight line on my follow through and when I did it right the feel and trajectory was absolutely gorgeous.

I lost it here and there through the round but thanks to the "system" of SnT I was able to identify and correct problems easily and quickly!

For one of the first times in my life I felt like I was playing golf instead of playing "let's fix the golf swing" on every other shot.

Awesome!

PS: anyone claiming that Snt will rob you of distance is obviously doing something wrong because when I got it right the ball will just POP of the face!

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Played my first round of the year today, and while my score remained the same atrocious 100+ it was by far the greatest day of ball striking I have ever experience. The vast majority of my swings resulted in very solid contact and a forward divot .  I'm going to take it slow and follow the advice in the book, meaning that solid contact is the first priority. Really loving what SnT is doing for me so far, really felt my arms releasing in a straight line on my follow through and when I did it right the feel and trajectory was absolutely gorgeous.

I lost it here and there through the round but thanks to the "system" of SnT I was able to identify and correct problems easily and quickly!

For one of the first times in my life I felt like I was playing golf instead of playing "let's fix the golf swing" on every other shot.

Awesome!

PS: anyone claiming that Snt will rob you of distance is obviously doing something wrong because when I got it right the ball will just POP of the face!

update: spent an hour chipping in my backyard, just focusing on getting my swing bottom forward and getting a nice straight arm release just past impact. Was hitting everything nice and crisp with a tidy little clicking sound on all of them. Then when I was finished I decided to take one nice full swing with my 56* and a foam ball. Friggin' thing took off like a rocket, beautiful trajectory, right over my house!! PERFECT DIVOT really looking forward to seeing how much I can improve now that I know what to do, seem like the potential is virtually limitless. Of course it helps that I am starting at ROCK BOTTOM LOL.

[inthehole]

Funny S&T; story - I was paired with a guy yesterday that had the worst slice I ever saw ... I mean a beyond rediculous slice.     He was an in shape, early 30's guy - with probably a pro level swing speed, but less than zero control.     Lost every single ball off his driver - no exaggeration.      I never give advice & he wasn't looking for any, but after about 15 holes of this, I couldn't take it & I mentioned when I first started, I had a really bad slice problem & I heard about the Stack & TIlt swing (here), and read all I could about it online/youtube & in the S&T; book, and it really helped me more than I could say & now I draw everything almost to a fault.     He then proceeded to say, my teacher told me to stay as far away from that as I can.     Should have known better than to say anything, forsure the last time I offer advice to a type A stubburn personality type (I just couldn't believe he didn't ask me for just a bit of advice after this display just kept going on and on, as I don't think I missed a fairway all day - I was on fire - if I was in his shoes, I would have asked the better player for a pointer or two).

But the reason I bring all this up is this ... do you guys find there is a stereotype against S&T; amongst traditional instructors ?

[jamo]

He then proceeded to say, my teacher told me to stay as far away from that as I can.     Should have known, forsure the last time I offer advice to that type A stubburn personality type.

I don't blame him, sounds like his current swing was awesome! ;-)

[outlaw1984]

am i the only one that thinks the stack and tilt is hard to learn.......

i cant control my swing with the stack and tilt......i cant control the tempo or nothing.....i feel all bunched up, worry im not going to keep my weight on my left, then i catch myself trying to get back to the ball and throwing myhands at the ball.....do i just to take it off for a couple weeks and re read the book......or go on to someone like Shawn Clement......he gets great reviews on his method.....

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by outlaw1984

am i the only one that thinks the stack and tilt is hard to learn.......

i cant control my swing with the stack and tilt......i cant control the tempo or nothing.....i feel all bunched up, worry im not going to keep my weight on my left, then i catch myself trying to get back to the ball and throwing myhands at the ball.....do i just to take it off for a couple weeks and re read the book......or go on to someone like Shawn Clement......he gets great reviews on his method.....

I do recall S&T; felt funny at first - my slice was so bad I stuck with it & it cured that problem & became second nature in a short time.      I haven't been playing very long compared to most guys here, but what appeals to me is it's simplicity - I think golfers need more of that.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by outlaw1984

i cant control my swing with the stack and tilt......i cant control the tempo or nothing.....i feel all bunched up, worry im not going to keep my weight on my left, then i catch myself trying to get back to the ball and throwing myhands at the ball.....do i just to take it off for a couple weeks and re read the book......or go on to someone like Shawn Clement......he gets great reviews on his method.....

Find a good instructor. And consider your expectations - it feels as if you're expecting miracles in a few weeks.

[sk golf]

Originally Posted by outlaw1984

am i the only one that thinks the stack and tilt is hard to learn.......

i cant control my swing with the stack and tilt......i cant control the tempo or nothing.....i feel all bunched up, worry im not going to keep my weight on my left, then i catch myself trying to get back to the ball and throwing myhands at the ball.....do i just to take it off for a couple weeks and re read the book......or go on to someone like Shawn Clement......he gets great reviews on his method.....

Change typically feels uncomfortable... after all your doing something you weren't doing before.  I would limit your swing thoughts to 1 or 2 at the most.  Practice those thoughts until you own them and then continue to build from there.

[vanpooten]

Originally Posted by inthehole

But the reason I bring all this up is this ... do you guys find there is a stereotype against S&T; amongst traditional instructors ?

Very much so. Every time I tell a different pro at the courses I work/play at (four pros so far I think)  I get the same reaction of disbelief and/or disgust. Why is it that S&T; is so polarizing? I've given up telling people what I'm working on just so I don't have to deal with their looks of disapproval.

[Yeri]

Originally Posted by outlaw1984

am i the only one that thinks the stack and tilt is hard to learn.......

i cant control my swing with the stack and tilt......i cant control the tempo or nothing.....i feel all bunched up, worry im not going to keep my weight on my left, then i catch myself trying to get back to the ball and throwing myhands at the ball.....do i just to take it off for a couple weeks and re read the book......or go on to someone like Shawn Clement......he gets great reviews on his method.....

I hear you, I've been there too... I'm a similar build, 6'5" 255 right now, and I had all of the same problems you are describing here and in your earlier post. Now I'm very far away from having a good swing yet, but I've been mostly able to work through those issues. It takes lots of practice and good instruction (I'm a very happy evolvr student). I don't know about your background but I was never much of a sport player until I got the golf bug, so I don't have the same background others do... Learning to move properly to get the weight transfer, especially when you are as big as we are, can be a  steep hill to climb, however it can absolutely be done.

What helped me was doing lots of reps without worrying about a ball -- I just took practice swings and focused 100% on my weight shift until it felt semi-natural. Then I added the ball back in, it was too difficult for me to try and focus on such a dramatic change to my swing and try to hit the ball at the same time. Now generally practicing without a ball is probably a bad idea (smarter people, here's your cue to step in and correct me :P ) but it's what I needed to do to ingrain that feeling. Now I don't even think about it anymore, and to take a swing and NOT shift my weight is what feels un-natural.

So don't get discouraged, it's going to take some work to do what you are trying, be patient... Also, having good instruction makes a tremendous difference, so you might want to consider your options in that area as well...

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by outlaw1984

am i the only one that thinks the stack and tilt is hard to learn.......

i cant control my swing with the stack and tilt......i cant control the tempo or nothing.....i feel all bunched up, worry im not going to keep my weight on my left, then i catch myself trying to get back to the ball and throwing myhands at the ball.....do i just to take it off for a couple weeks and re read the book......or go on to someone like Shawn Clement......he gets great reviews on his method.....

It took me a couple of tries before I stuck with it. Unfortunately, the first time I tried to implement the swing I only used the book as a reference. From my experience, it is very difficult to change your swing using only a book and without the help of a qualified teacher. The second time around I got great advice on TST first when I posted my swing here and then made the jump to Evolvr when it was clear I needed more. I recommend you do the same if you are serious about the S&T; swing.

[outlaw1984]

how far is too far inside for the hand path?

they say 20 degrees on the videos....but is there a good check point?

[GaijinGolfer]

Recently I picked up the S&T; book and have been playing around with some of the stuff I read on the book at the range and it was interesting.  I do feel that my contact is more pure by keeping my weight on my left foot.  Not sure if Im ready to completely buy into S&T; though, I find that Im much worse with my woods when using S&T.;

I definetly will implement some of the theories of S&T; into my swing though, such as keeping my head more steady over the ball and not having as much of a lateral weight shift in my back swing as I used to have.

The fact that so many people are highly skeptical of S&T; makes me question it but Im glad that at least some people are having success with it.  Not sure if its the way for me though.

[fanofsaosin]

The book and dvd are just foundations for the Pattern.... trying to find a certified instructor to monitor what you are doing is highly recommended and possible change your mind even more...

[1puttit]

Originally Posted by inthehole

But the reason I bring all this up is this ... do you guys find there is a stereotype against S&T; amongst traditional instructors ?

Originally Posted by vanpooten

Very much so. Every time I tell a different pro at the courses I work/play at (four pros so far I think)  I get the same reaction of disbelief and/or disgust. Why is it that S&T; is so polarizing? I've given up telling people what I'm working on just so I don't have to deal with their looks of disapproval.

I'm not sure why there is so much prejudice against S&T; but it definitely exists. It is probably because S&T; challenges a lot of what is traditionally taught so it puts mainstream instructors on the defensive. Most people have this black/white style of thinking - if S&T; teaches that you don't need to shift your weight back then teachers who do favor a big weight shift automatically feel that S&T; is saying they're teaching the swing wrong. And nobody like to be wrong. Maybe its because they say the grip and stance aren't fundamentals? Maybe because they've said (in the Charlie Rose interview) "What if we told you everything you've been taught about the fundamentals of golf is wrong" (or words to that affect)? Or maybe because the "system" was marketed through Medicus and was therefore seen as a money grab infomercial and not a serious swing method?

For whatever reason, there are a lot of people out there that don't like S&T.; What I find humorous is golf announcers commenting on golf swings like Tiger, Hunter Mahan, Rose, etc.. that are all basically S&T; swings. The sad part is Andy and Mike are probably never going to get the credit they deserve. For me it is not worth the hassle of arguing with uneducated people about the merits of S&T.;  I just tell people I;m working on a center pivot swing which is what S&T; is.

The whole debate kind of reminds me of the Atkins low carb diet. When it first came out there was all this uproar about how bad it is for you and how it was going to cause heart disease, etc... Now most of the leading diets (Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, Nutrisystem) are moving away from low fat diets and incorporating low carb principles. They talk about Glycemic index but it is really low carb.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by outlaw1984

am i the only one that thinks the stack and tilt is hard to learn.......

i cant control my swing with the stack and tilt......i cant control the tempo or nothing.....i feel all bunched up, worry im not going to keep my weight on my left, then i catch myself trying to get back to the ball and throwing myhands at the ball.....do i just to take it off for a couple weeks and re read the book......or go on to someone like Shawn Clement......he gets great reviews on his method.....

Working on your own, it will take more time. A good instructor will cut down that time.

I did not have a S&T; instructor in the area, so it was the book - and reading it several times - videos here and on the web with golf evolution, and I it is coming together. Ideally, I will take video and have someone evaluate it. But patience is the key - with a job and travel, I've worked on it from August to April, and it is coming together. It's trial and error and study.