The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[Kujan]

All systems go. Shot 79 at a relatively short but difficult course in MD called Red Gate. Trial and error proved the book to be correct - don't put the ball too far forward in your stance. Hands forward with a one plane swing releasing hands thru impact results in solid contact with s nice draw ball flight. The key for me is probably keeping a steady head thru impact.

[taxgolf]

Although it is beautiful weather at the moment in Holland, wintertime is slowly approaching. I practise on a 9 holes par 3/4 course, with a small driving range. I can not take out the driver / 3 wood (and even a hybrid) for a full swing. The balls would fly over the range. Yet, after reading The Lowest Score Wins, I want to step up my practise on the driver.

I have searched for 2/3 specific driver exercises which I can use on the small DR. I haven't found a good one yet.

Basically, I think I have to use a normal driver exercise, but just not making a full turn etc., but restrict it to halve swings. And focus on extension.

But I would like to know if you have 2 specific drills for working on a small driving range which I can use.

[ghalfaire]

Well I have been letting my game get away from me in the last year or so but recently decided I'd try to recapture the "glory" such as it was.  I have been taking a series of lessons and it has slowly but surely getting better.  But I still have some problems with consistency.  I can play pretty well for 16-17 hole but seem unable to not have one or two blowup holes.  Almost always caused by a tee shot OB, in the woods, the middle of a desert bush/cactus, or etc.   I periodically seem to sway and move my head which causes these disasters.  Somewhat to my surprise my teacher, a PGA pro, says to me the other day that while he is not a stack and tilt teacher he thinks I might be well served to keep some more weigh on my front leg during the back swing. So the last couple of weeks I have been practicing this and it is going well and in fact I probably have 60 to 65%  of my weight on the front leg (feel anyway not sure what is real) during the back swing and it seems to not only stabilize my head but I am making much more accurate shots without losing any distance that I can see.  So I played 9 holes at dawn the other day with my buddy and hit 5 of the 6 driver fairways (I admit using a 3 Wood on one of them), had a chance to make both par 5s in two (missed the greens but not by much).  So was really pleased and am going to continue this set up.  Of all the golfers I know and play with, and there are quite a few,  I only know of one using the Stack and Tilt.  But while I have only adopted this one feature (weight forward) is certainly seems to be working for me.  I have not heard much about the Stack and Tilt swing lately on TST and was just wondering if anyone out there is using this technique and how is it working for you?

I am not sure "golf talk" is the right forum for this but I'm sure IACAS will move it to its proper place if not.

[Phil McGleno]

@ghalfaire in my experience SnT is easily overdone. Here are some other things you should look at: http://lowestscorewins.com/ (rare to see a FL who has not bought and loved the book - bunch of my students have bought and loved it). [CONTENTEMBED=/t/74723/introduction-to-the-purestrike-5-simple-keys-5sk-learning-system layout=inline]​[/CONTENTEMBED] is obviously a good thread. And specific to you right now I would really look at this thread:[CONTENTEMBED=/t/54540/a-centered-pivot layout=inline]​[/CONTENTEMBED].

[ghalfaire]

@Phil McGleno thanks for the response and I'll take your advice about not overdoing the SnT and I will read some more. After all, and especially true in golf, success in not a place it is a journey.  Certainly the key I need to work on is keeping my head still because when I do that the rest seems to fall into place.

[davidandrew]

It seems that many golfers who try stack and tilt hit it great to begin with.Ot, as with me hit it perfect or dreadful. Maybe an expert here can help me with my problem.

here are my swing thoughts.

1. weight more left at address

2.bent over ball more

3.backswing, hands move inside and feeling is left shoulder is dipping as more weight goes left and right leg straightens

4.downswing, but cheeks feel tight top part of body lifts up

the ball starts right and makes a lovely baby draw to the target

But something's I will hit it close to the kneck and shank it, or I will hit a big hook

the feelings I have when hitting it gut is better rhythm butt cheeks tight all smooth

the feelings I have when hitting it bad is arms are too quick in downswing

it maybe that my left arm moves away from my chest in backswing which would create a shank, a problem I've had for long time

any thoughts would be most grateful

thank you and good golfing folks

[mvmac]

It seems that many golfers who try stack and tilt hit it great to begin with.Ot, as with me hit it perfect or dreadful. Maybe an expert here can help me with my problem.

here are my swing thoughts.

1. weight more left at address

2.bent over ball more

3.backswing, hands move inside and feeling is left shoulder is dipping as more weight goes left and right leg straightens

4.downswing, but cheeks feel tight top part of body lifts up

the ball starts right and makes a lovely baby draw to the target

But something's I will hit it close to the kneck and shank it, or I will hit a big hook

the feelings I have when hitting it gut is better rhythm butt cheeks tight all smooth

the feelings I have when hitting it bad is arms are too quick in downswing

it maybe that my left arm moves away from my chest in backswing which would create a shank, a problem I've had for long time

any thoughts would be most grateful

thank you and good golfing folks

Sometimes if you exaggerate a feel long enough you can start to over do it. We've seen S&T; students who work on "left shoulder down" that eventually start moving their heads down and forward on the backswing. Feel becomes real and this can obviously cause some issues on the downswing.

Make sure the swing thought you're using is specific to your swing and/or priority piece. Feel free to post to a swing video to get some confirmation.

http://thesandtrap.com/f/4180/member-swings

[davidandrew]

mvmac

thanks for reply, makes a lot of sense, my head does move down on the back swing, though at impact it goes back to same position at address

I will post a video, your thoughts would be very much appreciated.thanks

[DrvFrShow]

It is timely that this thread get necroed at this time. With the issue I have with my left knee I'm seriously looking at this method because it appears to involve minimal if any lateral motion in the left knee. And messing around with it in the kitchen with my short weighted training club I think I could pick it up in a couple of weeks with some good instruction and video (my new coach uses it and a launch monitor). It doesn't seem that complicated. In front of a mirror I can keep a steady head more easily, and keep my pivot more stable. It seems to make the 5SKs a little easier to do. It doesn't feel all that powerful due to the lack of hip turn, but I still get a full shoulder turn which tells me there's a lot of resistance built up. And on a slow downswing motion, I noticed my right arm is not trapped like it was on the traditional swing and I can stay in posture through impact position.

My physical therapist and I looked at several golf swings on Friday and she liked this one for the knee position. Since my first lesson with my new coach is Wednesday, I'll talk to him about learning this method. I'm planning weekly lessons for a couple months.

I don't care what others think I look like when I play. If my ball goes where I want it, that's all that matters.

[davidandrew]

Driveforshow

nice thread,

your quote, I don't care what others think I look like when I play. If my ball goes where I want it, that's all that matters.

never care what people think of how your swing looks.stack and tilt is a fantastic method.I have played golf since a kid and been a pro for the past 25 years,hit thousands of balls.

have suffered from back and hip trouble for the past 10 years,many times walking off course after a few holes in agony

since going to stack and tilt I have not pain,its the greatest thing for me, as I thought I must give the game up at 48 which would have destroyed me.

Go with stack and tilt, give it a few months before you decide if its for you, don't over do the movements,and don't give a sh,, what people think

[its actually a great looking movement].

A tour player doesn't care how their swing looks - read a golf instruction book and see if guys like Sergio, phil, jim,kucher,monty,and many more do what the book says.

go for it, enjoy the ride and do what you feel is correct, let me know how you get on

[iacas]

It doesn't feel all that powerful due to the lack of hip turn, but I still get a full shoulder turn which tells me there's a lot of resistance built up.

Just curious what this means. S&T; encourages a bit more of a hip turn (via the change in flex of the two knees) than "most" swings - or at least the swings which say "keep the same flex in the trail knee."

[DrvFrShow]

Just curious what this means. S&T; encourages a bit more of a hip turn (via the change in flex of the two knees) than "most" swings - or at least the swings which say "keep the same flex in the trail knee."

I agree with what you're saying there about keeping the same flex in the trail knee. I can't do that type of swing. I was going by "feel." When I tried to maintain the bend it would wobble - I have bad knees. So I've never given much thought to the keeping the same flex in the right knee throughout the swing because it never felt balanced. Besides, you never saw any of the legends maintain the bend in their right knee: see Hogan, Palmer, Snead, Nicklaus, Player, Payne Stewart. Other videos I've seen on Youtube and elsewhere (DVDs) a lot of golf swings involve the left knee bending and moving inward. I did this and it allowed a bit more hip turn, and when returning to the squat position during the downswing it created extra torque. However, it's a move I can no longer make.

S&T; has a straight ahead knee flex in the left knee which is the motion my PT says I can do with the way my knee is at this time. I've always straightened my right knee from the flexed position, but never locked it, so I guess the motion just felt natural to me. I didn't rotate my hip as many degrees I was when I was bringing my left leg across. I have a lot of flexibility for my age and hence was able to get a full shoulder turn. In effect, I may end up getting more resistance (X-factor) with S&T; than I was with my old swing. This could be a better swing for me.

[iacas]

I agree with what you're saying there about keeping the same flex in the trail knee. I can't do that type of swing. I was going by "feel." When I tried to maintain the bend it would wobble - I have bad knees. So I've never given much thought to the keeping the same flex in the right knee throughout the swing because it never felt balanced. Besides, you never saw any of the legends maintain the bend in their right knee: see Hogan, Palmer, Snead, Nicklaus, Player, Payne Stewart. Other videos I've seen on Youtube and elsewhere (DVDs) a lot of golf swings involve the left knee bending and moving inward. I did this and it allowed a bit more hip turn, and when returning to the squat position during the downswing it created extra torque. However, it's a move I can no longer make.

S&T; has a straight ahead knee flex in the left knee which is the motion my PT says I can do with the way my knee is at this time. I've always straightened my right knee from the flexed position, but never locked it, so I guess the motion just felt natural to me. I didn't rotate my hip as many degrees I was when I was bringing my left leg across. I have a lot of flexibility for my age and hence was able to get a full shoulder turn. In effect, I may end up getting more resistance (X-factor) with S&T; than I was with my old swing. This could be a better swing for me.

I'm fairly well aware of S&T;'s preferred knee motion, and I do not teach anything close to "keep the same knee flex." I put "most swings" in quotes because that's how it can seem.

What I said and am saying now is that you said S&T; teaches a restricted hip turn and I find that to be the opposite.

[DrvFrShow]

I'm fairly well aware of S&T;'s preferred knee motion, and I do not teach anything close to "keep the same knee flex." I put "most swings" in quotes because that's how it can seem.

What I said and am saying now is that you said S&T; teaches a restricted hip turn and I find that to be the opposite.

This is simply miscommunication.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Erik. In comparison to "most swings" the S&T; does not teach restricted hip turn. What I meant was with respect to what I had been doing I was turning less. It does not mean that S&T; is restricted in hip movement. Do you understand now?

[iacas]

This is simply miscommunication.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Erik. In comparison to "most swings" the S&T; does not teach restricted hip turn. What I meant was with respect to what I had been doing I was turning less. It does not mean that S&T; is restricted in hip movement. Do you understand now?

Okey dokey.

If you (anyone) adopt S&T;, my advice is:

• Don't overdo any piece. Particularly shoulder down and hands in.
• Realize you already do some of the pieces (their "twelve words").
• Feel ain't real in S&T; just as it ain't in the "regular" golf swing.
• Your weight and pressure should still shift back in the backswing.

[davidandrew]

Erik

would you say that hitting shots towards the shank using stack and tilt is to do with arms not staying close to chest in backswing or left shoulder and head dipping too much going back,I have pure hits with slight draw or I shank it,,, not a great confidence booster

[iacas]

would you say that hitting shots towards the shank using stack and tilt is to do with arms not staying close to chest in backswing or left shoulder and head dipping too much going back,I have pure hits with slight draw or I shank it,,, not a great confidence booster

You're probably closed (or "not open enough") at impact. This forces your hands out away from you, and pushes the sweet spot outside the ball.

At the end of the day something is forcing the sweetspot outside the ball when you shank. Could be a bunch of things. I'd look at that one first. Look also at the basics: how far you set up from the ball, whether your head moves toward the ball in thebackswing (also somewhat likely), etc.

[taxgolf]

If you (anyone) adopt S&T;, my advice is:

Don't overdo any piece. Particularly shoulder down and hands in.

Realize you already do some of the pieces (their "twelve words").

Feel ain't real in S&T; just as it ain't in the "regular" golf swing.

Your weight and pressure should still shift back in the backswing.

Iacas.

I am well aware of my playing hcp. I come to terms with the fact that playing a round of golf, I will most likely hit a ball or 2/3 that are s@#$t. Golf is a diffecult game. I have 2 (probably more, but these two are killing me so to speak) issues.

1. I do not step away when I am not feeling comfortable at address. Still hit the ball and, no surprise there, the result is awfull. Such a simple thing of stepping away and I can not get it in my system.

2. I have learned, also through this forum, things about weight and pressure. I try to have a more centered turn and I am not trying to fight pressure in my right foot. Like a sprinter coming of the blocks or a baseball pitcher pushing of. But what happend in a round, is that I get stuck on my right foot. pressure stays back, I hang back on my right foot, low point of the swing coms in front of the ball. I hate it. Yesterday I played 18 holes and for the first 9, i didn't take out the driver, was absolutely killing the h3, accurate and long! And suddenly I found myself hanging on my right foot.

And I do not know where that suddenly comes from in the middle of a round. Very, very strange. I wish there was something that i could use to get that golfkiller out of my system.