Tiger's "Measurably Worse" Swing

[iacas]

Please watch the following video and then comment. I'm curious to see if the reaction I had is shared by others.

[jamo]

I thought the funniest thing was that the putt he used repeatedly to show the hips rotating during putting was actually a push, even though he said that Tiger's prominent putting miss was a pull. I also liked the terrible, terrible camera angles when he talked about spine angle from a face on view. And the muscle stuff had to be total BS.

I have more thoughts, but I think those are the funniest.

[Mr. Desmond]

It's been about 6 years since I saw a bubble shaft.

I'll let knowledgeable people comment on the substance.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Er... 2:05 from my (duffer!) perspective isn't drawn on his spine angle at all!

I copied the 'address' and 'impact' positions from the video to compare (top left/top right) and then created an overlay (bottom left) and finally used the address angle lines on top of the impact position (bottom right) and it's spot on.

[uttexas]

The Shakira hips comparison was the best.

The microfiber BS is perfect half truth pseudo medical speak.   Some patients eat this sort of stuff up and the doctors (mostly chiropractors) that support these theories love it.  The doctors particularly like the part of the theory that states the micorfibers will increase over time, thus requiring more and more treatment.  There's no way to disprove these BS theories other than getting multiple muscle and tissue biopsies over time, which no patient will have done (cost prohibitive).  So you have a pretty good sounding BS microfiber story that can be applied to every patient and won't be disproven.

What really happens in severe whiplash:

Tearing of the facet joint capsule and ligaments--treatable with PT, traction, strong antiinflammatories.  If sx not improve, facet injections +/- rhizotomy (sensory denervation of the facet joint)

There are micro muscle tears and resultant scar tissue in the cervical paraspinals, but in most cases these heal and are not clinically significant over time.

As far as the golf swing stuff in the video;  Lee Trevino, Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, and Sam Snead all advocated aggressive hips forward into impact.  Are Tiger's arms creeping too close to his body at address, I'd say yes, they are.

With the swing the video recommends (not connecting the arms to the body and  extending both arms high into impact), you'd be hitting pull fades all day (not the most efficient way to hit a golf ball)  The producers of the video clearly don't understand the ball flight laws--they say you want a square clubface (not open) at impact--not true if your swing is in to out.

[kilbyman]

None of this makes sense, really.  His own golfers that he shows are pushing their hips forward even when he says they aren't.  The guy who made this video is acting like a poor scientist.  Making a theory and using the data to support it, versus gathering data and trying to unify it under a theory.

As an aside, I would think holding the arms that straight would screw everything up.

And the club restraint thing seems totally bogus.

[Zeph]

I've seen this video before, but it's probably been updated with some new stuff I guess. My reaction is "Not this again" and "This video makes no sense".

[saevel25]

Yeah the line looked off there for the spine angle. I never liked the whole straight arm thing, i never seen a good golfer hit with it. Well scratch that, my dad has straight arms at the driver only, but he has a quirk in his swing were he hits the ball straight, but his irons he uses a normal swing set up.

The muscle fiber thing is true with that the body sets up the fibers as sort of temperary measure to keep the muscles stable while they heal, but then it takes about 6 months to gain full strength in that muscle or ligiment.

my favorite part was the countdown to lift off with the driver.

Though the iteresting part to me was the whole moving the knee, not the hip. I would like to see more evidence on that part, because it did show some key figures in golf who used that move and did well.

[ghalfaire]

Well I'm not a good enough golfer to give advice to Tiger on the swing changes.  But the video was interesting.  I don't know anything about micro tissue in the neck, but I have never seen a good golfer play with his arms and club on the same plane at address so don't think that is good advice.  Just a last comment I do believe over the years he "bulked up" too much for golf by lifting weights.  You can significantly increase your strength without gaining the bulk that Tiger with the proper weight program.   While Tiger looks good, I think he had a better body type for golf in his early professional years.  He was lean, strong, quick, and very supple. Now he looks like he should be a linebacker on some NFL team and I'm not sure but doubt that is the ideal body type for golf.

[uttexas]

Off topic, but has been mentioned in several posts above.  Tiger's body change hasn't just been from working out, a lot has been genetic.  Earl was a big lineman body type.  It was inevitable that Tiger's body would bulk up in his late twenties and thirties.  Tiger might have been able to limit the bulkiness with diet changes and lots of pilates/yoga/cardio, but as many egocentrics do, they instead like to work out with heavy weights for more pumpitude.

[SoCal Blade]

Total, complete and utter BS. Sounds and looks like a chiropractor sales video.

[mvmac]

I just think it's funny that the guy says not to do what the best players of all time did, but hey swing like this guy you've never seen or heard of.  In case you don't believe me, I'll add some sound effects.

[cbrian]

Originally Posted by mvmac

I just think it's funny that the guy says not to do what the best players of all time did, but hey swing like this guy you've never seen or heard of.  In case you don't believe me, I'll add some sound effects.

Those weren't sound effects Michael... His swing actually sounds like a friggin rocket. I can only imagine how far that guy would hit it with some long drive black denim and The Hammer driver.

[B-Con]

It seems like the author of the video is very anti-hip movement and anti-spine bending. [quote name="MiniBlueDragon" url="/forum/thread/43839/tiger-s-measurably-worse-swing#post_572780"]

Er... 2:05 from my (duffer!) perspective isn't drawn on his spine angle at all!

I copied the 'address' and 'impact' positions from the video to compare (top left/top right) and then created an overlay (bottom left) and finally used the address angle lines on top of the impact position (bottom right) and it's spot on.

[/quote] Thank you. I also noticed that. It looked like the author was just drawing lines that would support his own ideas, rather than actually measuring where the spine was. [quote name="mvmac" url="/forum/thread/43839/tiger-s-measurably-worse-swing#post_572838"]

I just think it's funny that the guy says not to do what the best players of all time did, but hey swing like this guy you've never seen or heard of.  In case you don't believe me, I'll add some sound effects.

[/quote] To be fair, the guy does average 350 yards off the tee. DJ, Lefty, and Bubba could probably all go learn something about distance from him.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

Now he looks like he should be a linebacker on some NFL team and I'm not sure but doubt that is the ideal body type for golf.

Tiger is nowhere near as impressive in person. If he stood next to a linebacker, he'd look downright puny.

Just as TV unfairly adds a few pounds to Paula Creamer (she's really rather thin), it adds bulk to Tiger Woods. And Phil Mickelson. In different ways. ;-) He's not "overly muscled."

[saevel25]

Erik's right, Tiger isn't that big, there really isn't many bulky guys on tour, they do a good job maximizing strength and keeping bulk down. Though i do say, Tiger's flexibility is probably less than what it was when he was winning all those majors, but he's size isn't the reason, its age..

[Clambake]

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

Now he looks like he should be a linebacker on some NFL team and I'm not sure but doubt that is the ideal body type for golf.

Tiger is nowhere near as impressive in person. If he stood next to a linebacker, he'd look downright puny.

Just as TV unfairly adds a few pounds to Paula Creamer (she's really rather thin), it adds bulk to Tiger Woods. And Phil Mickelson. In different ways. ;-) He's not "overly muscled."

I agree, in person and up close he doesn't look all that big - more like a 100m high hurdler build than a linebacker.   It was fun to see him at Torrey walking alongside J. Vegas, who almost does look like a linebacker.    Tiger does look solid, but not overly bulky in person.       He and I are the exact same, about 6' 1" and 180 lbs, only he seems to have that weight distributed very differently than I do.......

[basscat348]

I would think a golfer of his calibur  could be able to fix his swing somewhat on his own.He acts like its some huge ordeal with this new swing ,maybe tiger got amnesia when he got into his accident and he cant remember how he is supposed to golf.