The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[nevets88]

Not done. I just listened to a couple of minutes at the end where he states his future plans and it sounded like he plans to keep on going.

http://www.experttabletennis.com/dan-mclaughlin-how-to-master-any-skill/

[nevets88]

Mark Broadie states his opinion:

 

[mchepp]

9 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Mark Broadie states his opinion:

 

His opinion is you cannot be a golfer that plays on the PGA Tour with 10,000 hours of deliberate practice but you can achieve your potential. Whatever that potential may be. Hmm... Sounds to me like a non-answer. 

I guess though, there probably is no right answer. What Dan did though has nothing to do with the 10k theory. Yes, he attached his name to it, but it was not a representative experiment.

[JetFan1983]

For those looking for something resembling closure with the Dan Plan, Golfwrx posted this article a couple days ago where Dan says his goodbyes.

Since his goodbye is fairly weak, perhaps it's up to me to offer a good ending to this story. I can't decide whether I want to go with the Dan Plan Dirty Harry ending, which contains a valuable lesson:

 

...or the Dan Plan Goodfellas Ending, which is... well... just cooler :

 

[nevets88]

In the end, another guy who never figured out the swing. Golf is a cruel mistress, literally, a back breaker, and the quite the temptress, always dangling hope. The senior tour is even harder to make due to such tight requirements and not nearly the draw as the regular tour. Will be harder to get eyeballs and press coverage. 

[bkuehn1952]

Nice find @JetFan1983.  Dan has been a bit of a jerk in not writing a closing to his "plan".

He said he was going to the store for some milk, walked out the front door and never came back.

[Pretzel]

I think he wanted to avoid looking like his plan had failed, even though by just about any objective measurement it had. He was nearly 3/4 of the way through his practice time and was still unable to compete near the top of the pack even at the local amateur level (qualifier for state amateur tournaments). 

That said, I would've preferred he wrote out an ending conclusion to it. Step up and admit that the plan wasn't anywhere close to on track, and that he was left hurt and unable to complete it. That's a lot more graceful than the limbo that it ended up being left in.

Interestingly enough, I looked up the name Dan McLaughlin in Oregon and found only one golfer with a handicap of 8.0 who plays at Grants Pass Golf Club. This person has a low H.I. of 7.4, so it isn't Dan from the Dan Plan. Looks like Dan definitely is throwing in the towel if he hasn't even registered his GHIN number for the year.

[MuniGrit]

It was a joke from the beginning. Is there anyone surprised it didn't work out like he planned? Golf is tough that if you are practicing wrong you can actually get worse. It isn't about time.

Edited March 19, 2017 by MuniGrit

[RandallT]

On 3/19/2017 at 0:47 AM, JetFan1983 said:

For those looking for something resembling closure with the Dan Plan, Golfwrx posted this article a couple days ago where Dan says his goodbyes.

A blast from the past. Haven't thought about this in a while! People seem to be waking up now and wondering what the heck ever happened to this project. Couple other recent links I just found too, in case folks interested:

http://myavidgolfer.com/blog/uncategorised/r-p-dan-plan-spending-10000-hours-turn-pro-golfer/

They used @mchepp's article there as a source.

 

https://waxgolf.com/2017/03/17/the-dan-plan-the-fatal-flaw/

Their angle is clearly to push/market a "mechanically correct swing," and they say his back started to hurt because of the lack of hip turn.

 

But how interesting the Dan says he lost sight of his desire to inspire people, and that the project became too much about golf itself! I would've argued the opposite. How can you inspire people if you don't reach your golf goal.

The guy who wrote the wrx article also says Dan never set a goal of reaching the PGA. Not true. It's still on Dan's web site: http://thedanplan.com/about/

Quote

THE DETAILS

...

Logging in 30-plus hours a week he will hit the 10,000 hour milestone by December 2016. During this time, Dan plans to develop his skills through deliberate practice, eventually winning amateur events and obtaining his PGA Tour card through a successful appearance in the PGA Tour’s Qualifying School, or “Q-School”.

It is in the "Why?" section at the site where Dan talks about inspiring others. To me, the "why" is the justification for the goal, but not the goal. Maybe splitting hairs. But the whole project caught on because of the PGA goal- otherwise, there would be zero interest in just a guy learning how to get better.

 

Anyway, I just can't recall many times where he actually demonstrated deliberate practice. Not in his longer blog entries, not in his daily narratives. I just thumbed through a bunch, and I don't see much focus on specific things. Not any reference to video, slow motion, etc. Maybe I'm wrong and his time early with an instructor was like that. Or maybe he just didn't share much about his disciplined processes. 

But to hear Dan talk now about the importance of deliberate practice in these post-mortem interviews feels off (from someone who followed fairly closely to the project as it was going on).  My impression was that he played a lot, and hoped he was "finding it." He bounced around a lot, and had epiphanies every once in a while that he tried to con himself were great progress. 

I've learned about 10x more stuff about deliberate practice here on TST than I even sniffed over at Dan's site. Now, it's all too easy to write stuff like: "just check out Dan's incredibly detailed site for a great example of what you can achieve with deliberate practice." 

Phooey- there's not much there on that. In fact, you'll do far, far better at a site like this, and you'll get a chance to interact with others who are trying to do deliberate practice: swing threads, daily practice threads, stuff on practice techniques, conscious/unconscious stages of competence, etc.  I think Dan should've been here the whole time, and he'd have developed more than he did. We'd have kept him on track at least.

[krupa]

26 minutes ago, RandallT said:

The guy who wrote the wrx article also says Dan never set a goal of reaching the PGA. Not true.

Didn't he modify that goal and make it "play in a PGA event" (which opened the door for Monday qualifier, sponsor exemption, etc) instead of actually getting a Tour card?  I know his About page didn't change but I thought some of his posts softened the goal a bit.

[Lihu]

There was so much negativity I don't blame him for just walking away. That and he could have just figured all the negative stuff was already said many times about him failing anyway.

So, what's the point? Fuss up to a bunch of golf nerds just so we can stand there with our arms folded like we knew this was the outcome all along?

[nevets88]

Even the way he "quits" demonstrates his wishy-washiness. Well, I'm done, but there's the Senior Tour.

People,

DON'T WASTE YOUR ENERGY ON THIS GUY, HE HAS SUCKED ENOUGH OF YOUR VALUABLE TIME.

 

[Lihu]

15 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Even the way he "quits" demonstrates his wishy-washiness. Well, I'm done, but there's the Senior Tour.

People,

DON'T WASTE YOUR ENERGY ON THIS GUY, HE HAS SUCKED ENOUGH OF YOUR VALUABLE TIME.

 

Then why did you post here again?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, RandallT said:

Anyway, I just can't recall many times where he actually demonstrated deliberate practice. Not in his longer blog entries, not in his daily narratives. I just thumbed through a bunch, and I don't see much focus on specific things. Not any reference to video, slow motion, etc. Maybe I'm wrong and his time early with an instructor was like that. Or maybe he just didn't share much about his disciplined processes. 

Not at all.

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

There was so much negativity I don't blame him for just walking away. That and he could have just figured all the negative stuff was already said many times about him failing anyway.

So, what's the point? Fuss up to a bunch of golf nerds just so we can stand there with our arms folded like we knew this was the outcome all along?

What's up with this, @Lihu? Dan made himself a topic of discussion. Pure and simple.

People had opinions on whether he was doing things the right way.

He wasn't bullied or whatever - people just said negative things about him, and often said where they think the plan was going wrong, why it would fail, etc.

45 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Then why did you post here again?

You're coming across as defensive and negative yourself here @Lihu.

[Lihu]

34 minutes ago, iacas said:

What's up with this, @Lihu? Dan made himself a topic of discussion. Pure and simple.

People had opinions on whether he was doing things the right way.

He wasn't bullied or whatever - people just said negative things about him, and often said where they think the plan was going wrong, why it would fail, etc.

Sure, he definitely did do that, and I completely agree with many of the posts we made here about his not being able to succeed. I certainly don't think he was being "bullied" here at all, and apologize if that's what it sounded like?

All I was stating was what purpose would it serve for him to post a log like "All the golf nerds were right, there was no way I could have succeeded." when it's pretty obvious that was the case.

I will give thumbs up for the GolfWRX article that put a much more positive spin on the entire endeavor by allowing him to state that he succeeded in "something". He also admitted that he should probably have dome more "focused" practice. That says a lot about why he thought he failed at getting better than he did at golf.

 

Quote

You're coming across as defensive and negative yourself here @Lihu.

Actually, I was just curious why he would put a huge bold font post stating that we shouldn't waste our time posting when he posted a day or two before?

Edited March 20, 2017 by Lihu
Issue with verb "tense"

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Sure, he definitely did do that, and I completely agree with many of the posts we made here about his not being able to succeed. I certainly don't think he was being "bullied" here at all, and apologize if that's what it sounded like?

It sounds like you're on a high horse about the negativity directed at the Dan Plan.

13 minutes ago, Lihu said:

All I was stating was what purpose would it serve for him to post a log like "All the golf nerds were right, there was no way I could have succeeded." when it's pretty obvious that was the case.

Because it would put a cap on things. People would have some closure. For months, too, he lead people on. He basically lied - to himself, to people donating money, to people who had invested a little of their time and interest. It was a minor betrayal or theft.

13 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I will give thumbs up for the GolfWRX article that put a much more positive spin on the entire endeavor by allowing him to state that he succeeded in "something".

What did he succeed in doing? In getting paid (not much, admittedly) to play golf for a living? In getting made slightly famous and traveling to a few places to give some speeches?

If you want to say he succeeded in inspiring people… I would argue with that. He failed. How's that inspiring?

13 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Actually, I was just curious why he would put a huge bold font post stating that we shouldn't waste our time posting when he posted a day or two before?

Cuz you've never wasted your time on something you know is a waste of time…?  C'mon @Lihu!!!

And dude, the above is not at all mean-spirited (my post). I'm ribbing you a bit, but also gently poking you to realize how your posts are coming off here. Defensive at least.

[Big C]

Dan solicited contributions in order to keep his experiment going. Many of his readers were also people that donated to the cause. @Lihu don't you think he owed those people more than radio silence? 

When you put yourself out there, you take all the good and bad that goes with it. You can't hope that fame brings you donations and sponsorships, but shrink away from the possibility of negative commentary. 

I don't think it reflects badly on Dan that he didn't (or physically couldn't) complete his stated goal. But I think the way he ended things shows a remarkable lack of character.

[Lihu]

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

It sounds like you're on a high horse about the negativity directed at the Dan Plan.

Oops, didn't mean to sound so "High horsey" because I certainly included myself with the rest of the arm folded golf nerds who's waiting for some proper closure.

The issue I see is that we'll never get that satisfaction from him. No point in waiting for it.

 

Quote

Because it would put a cap on things. People would have some closure. For months, too, he lead people on. He basically lied - to himself, to people donating money, to people who had invested a little of their time and interest. It was a minor betrayal or theft.

He doesn't have a very apologetic demeanor about him. I think this is the best "apology" or "acceptance of failure" we'll likely get out of him.

 

Quote

What did he succeed in doing? In getting paid (not much, admittedly) to play golf for a living? In getting made slightly famous and traveling to a few places to give some speeches?

He's learned to become a "Soda" guy, and hoping someday to do the aged "Dan Plan Senior Tour" guy with 4000 hours remaining?

IDK, he seems to have grown. His demeanor is not quite as cocky as before. That's pretty much what I meant by succeeding at something.

 

Quote

If you want to say he succeeded in inspiring people… I would argue with that. He failed. How's that inspiring?

He certainly failed at getting to become the best golfer he could possibly get to, but he did succeed in figuring out that being an arrogant fool doesn't get you very far in golf. He did admit that he "grew" through the entire experience.

 

Quote

Cuz you've never wasted your time on something you know is a waste of time…?  C'mon @Lihu!!!

And dude, the above is not at all mean-spirited (my post). I'm ribbing you a bit, but also gently poking you to realize how your posts are coming off here. Defensive at least.

No mean "spiritedness" taken.

 

5 minutes ago, Big C said:

Dan solicited contributions in order to keep his experiment going. Many of his readers were also people that donated to the cause. @Lihu don't you think he owed those people more than radio silence? 

When you put yourself out there, you take all the good and bad that goes with it. You can't hope that fame brings you donations and sponsorships, but shrink away from the possibility of negative commentary. 

I don't think it reflects badly on Dan that he didn't (or physically couldn't) complete his stated goal. But I think the way he ended things shows a remarkable lack of character.

I'm not saying that he doesn't owe them something other than radio silence. I'm just saying that he really has nothing to say since we collectively gave all the reasons for his failure before he failed at this. Him saying anything to that effect would be just to satisfy us arm folded golf nerds just so we can nod his acknowledgement.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Lihu