The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[iacas]

Being closed minded - not very inspiring.

Hardly surprising, though.

Someone should write an article - "The Dan Plan: How to Fail by Screwing Up From the Get-Go and Stubbornly Continuing for 10,000 Hours" or something. I'd publish it. It could look at not only how he started poorly, but how he continuously lies about his progress and fails to adapt his plan.

[newtogolf]

Being closed minded - not very inspiring.

I think Dan is in a tough spot as he seems to be fighting to gain some credibility for what he's accomplished thus far but is having difficulty finding any.

With 6000 hours dedicated to golf and a supposed 3 handicap I think he's now trying to position himself more as a teacher than student.   We view his plan as incomplete and in need of advice and coaching but he appears to be out of learning mode.

[JetFan1983]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

Being closed minded - not very inspiring.

Hardly surprising, though.

Someone should write an article - "The Dan Plan: How to Fail by Screwing Up From the Get-Go and Stubbornly Continuing for 10,000 Hours" or something. I'd publish it. It could look at not only how he started poorly, but how he continuously lies about his progress and fails to adapt his plan.

I'd read the shit out of that article.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="iacas" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/2754#post_1108175"]   [QUOTE name="nevets88" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/2736#post_1108155"]   Being closed minded - not very inspiring. [/QUOTE] Hardly surprising, though. Someone should write an article - "The Dan Plan: How to Fail by Screwing Up From the Get-Go and Stubbornly Continuing for 10,000 Hours" or something. I'd publish it. It could look at not only how he started poorly, but how he continuously lies about his progress and fails to adapt his plan. [/QUOTE] I'd read the shit out of that article.

We could just publish this thread. :-D

[iacas]

We could just publish this thread.

[garybbq]

He's almost 6,000 hours into his 10,000 hour 'experiment'. His official handicap is 3.1, his scoring average is about 80 overall and a tad more in official competitions. He needs to change something in the way he's going about it IMO as his scoring average is no different than it was about 18 months ago. That's the short version :)

One thing I said to Dan when he told me he was trying to inspire people with the blog was perhaps a bit harsh but I was trying to give the guy a shake. I told him that the only way he would truly inspire people was to succeed to at least tour level. Trying but failing through lack of planning or an unwillingness to change the plan as required to achieve the goal was not inspirational. I was seeing some success in my programme and suggested we trade ideas, kind of help each other along. I actually went a bit further than that to try to get him back on track but won't go into it on an open forum - it did involve a small financial outlay on my part (can almost see Shorty shacking his head in dispair  ) as well as 'sharing' some expertise I use in my programme. He just didn't want to know, all the advice/information flow was totally one sided and was ultimately ignored anyway.

Im curious, what does Dan have to say? is he basically telling you that what he is doing is working well and doesn't need to do anything different?

Any specific reasons for not wanting to trade/share information with you? or he just basically ignored it?

Thanks,

[Nosevi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

He's almost 6,000 hours into his 10,000 hour 'experiment'. His official handicap is 3.1, his scoring average is about 80 overall and a tad more in official competitions. He needs to change something in the way he's going about it IMO as his scoring average is no different than it was about 18 months ago. That's the short version :)

One thing I said to Dan when he told me he was trying to inspire people with the blog was perhaps a bit harsh but I was trying to give the guy a shake. I told him that the only way he would truly inspire people was to succeed to at least tour level. Trying but failing through lack of planning or an unwillingness to change the plan as required to achieve the goal was not inspirational. I was seeing some success in my programme and suggested we trade ideas, kind of help each other along. I actually went a bit further than that to try to get him back on track but won't go into it on an open forum - it did involve a small financial outlay on my part (can almost see Shorty shacking his head in dispair  ) as well as 'sharing' some expertise I use in my programme. He just didn't want to know, all the advice/information flow was totally one sided and was ultimately ignored anyway.

Im curious, what does Dan have to say? is he basically telling you that what he is doing is working well and doesn't need to do anything different?

Any specific reasons for not wanting to trade/share information with you? or he just basically ignored it?

Thanks,

Whatever he might say to me or on his blog, it isn't working well - he's scoring the same now as he did over 18 months ago having played full time golf since then. I could look back and see what hours point he was at then as I'm not sure, but it's a fair few hours between then and now with zero tangible results/improvement. He must know that.

My advice to Dan was to get an instructor and a good one at that. He needs one. Anyone that knows anything about golf knows he needs one. But he didn't (at least not yet). I showed/told him that I had had quite a bit of success in certain areas and suggested we share things we found useful. He just seemed totally disinterested - didn't answer emails, when he did they were one-liners and never offered anything in return.

Unlike some I don't actually mind the guy, seems ok to me, but what I don't 'get' is why his focus seems to be all about media and outward appearances of success rather than actually getting to his goal. Dan and I are officially at the same place (my CONGU 5.1 handicap is about equivalent to his USGA 3.2). I used certain techniques and resources to get there in half the time while running an airfield as my day job for much of that time. I said I'd try to help him get back on track but he just didn't want to know. I don't know why.

I may try again at some stage but we didn't part company on the best of terms last time we spoke via email.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

Being closed minded - not very inspiring.

Hardly surprising, though.

Someone should write an article - "The Dan Plan: How to Fail by Screwing Up From the Get-Go and Stubbornly Continuing for 10,000 Hours" or something. I'd publish it. It could look at not only how he started poorly, but how he continuously lies about his progress and fails to adapt his plan.

I'd read the shit out of that article.

Me too. I'm surprised one hasn't been written yet. I only tried looking for a couple of minutes though. I guess people are afraid to be negative, but a piece can be tactful (or at least try to be) in tone and take the cautionary tale angle. I've only read a handful of well thought out critical posts in other forums, but most are pretty harsh.

[acerimusdux]

Unlike some I don't actually mind the guy, seems ok to me, but what I don't 'get' is why his focus seems to be all about media and outward appearances of success rather than actually getting to his goal. Dan and I are officially at the same place (my CONGU 5.1 handicap is about equivalent to his USGA 3.2). I used certain techniques and resources to get there in half the time while running an airfield as my day job for much of that time. I said I'd try to help him get back on track but he just didn't want to know. I don't know why.

I may try again at some stage but we didn't part company on the best of terms last time we spoke via email.

I imagine he gets lots of unsolicited "expert" advice, so I can understand why he might ignore some of it, and have trouble sorting out which to listen to.

But this is all the more reason he really needs to have his own local expert he trusts. I think the only way to really apply "deliberate practice" successfully to golf is probably to seek out those experienced instructors who might know what some of the best drills and practice routines are. Just playing golf is not "deliberate practice". I would love to see him working with some good instructors and posting more about what practice routines they recommend and what specific drills have helped, etc.

[MrFlipper]

Looks to me like he is changing his focus.

Although he hasn't come right out and said it, I think he is just putting enough effort into "improvement" to make it look like he is still trying, even though he isn't getting better.

I think he sees more money in being "inspirational". As in, he did what most us us wouldn't do, quit his job, followed his dream, etc. Read his profile from Pebble Beach.

Why would a serious golfer with tour aspirations go to Pebble as a "fan", unless it was just to elevate his visibility to raise money?  And of course to "share" how he is doing this to be an "inspiration to others", blah blah blah.

I bet we see more "inspirational" stuff from him, and less improvement as a golfer. Maybe talk shows, pro-ams, etc. where he is just a regular guy, "enjoying the process", "inspiring others" and with the tour goal receding more and more into the background.

I'd guess that to non-golfers what he has done is impressive. But compared to the other 3 people at Pebble (a young lady 1st tee mentor, a golfing vet with a prosthetic leg, a young lady trying to get more black girls into the game), he doesn't seem in nearly the same class of "inspiration" to me.

[Shorty]

I think he sees more money in being "inspirational".

I agree.

He is focusing on being "the guy who'd never played golf who quit his job to play on the PGA Tour"

Non golfers will only digest that bit. And when he is speaking to school groups or whatever, no one will speak up and say "But you didn't really ever have a chance of succeeding and you are light years away from your goal. Why are we listening to you?"

Kid goes home  - "This guy came to school to talk to us. He quit his job to become a pro and he's never played golf."

Parent: "Did he make it?'

Kid: "Dunno. I think he became pretty good, though. He said something about playing at Pebble Beach or something and how tough putting there was."

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFlipper

I think he sees more money in being "inspirational".

I agree.

He is focusing on being "the guy who'd never played golf who quit his job to play on the PGA Tour"

Non golfers will only digest that bit. And when he is speaking to school groups or whatever, no one will speak up and say "But you didn't really ever have a chance of succeeding and you are light years away from your goal. Why are we listening to you?"

Kid goes home  - "This guy came to school to talk to us. He quit his job to become a pro and he's never played golf."

Parent: "Did he make it?'

Kid: "Dunno. I think he became pretty good, though. He said something about playing at Pebble Beach or something and how tough putting there was."

This pretty much sums it up. Parents will then spend lots of money on his inspirational books and such. . .

[RFKFREAK]

Hardly surprising, though. Someone should write an article - "The Dan Plan: How to Fail by Screwing Up From the Get-Go and Stubbornly Continuing for 10,000 Hours" or something. I'd publish it. It could look at not only how he started poorly, but how he continuously lies about his progress and fails to adapt his plan.

[quote name="JetFan1983" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/2700_100#post_1108183"] I'd read the shit out of that article.  [/quote] +1! Would love to see it done! [quote name="Shorty" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/2700_100#post_1108480"]I agree. He is focusing on being "the guy who'd never played golf who quit his job to play on the PGA Tour" Non golfers will only digest that bit. And when he is speaking to school groups or whatever, no one will speak up and say "But you didn't really ever have a chance of succeeding and you are light years away from your goal. Why are we listening to you?" Kid goes home  - "This guy came to school to talk to us. He quit his job to become a pro and he's never played golf." Parent: "Did he make it?' Kid: "Dunno. I think he became pretty good, though. He said something about playing at Pebble Beach or something and how tough putting there was." [/quote] [quote name="Lihu" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/2700_100#post_1108483"] This pretty much sums it up. Parents will then spend lots of money on his inspirational books and such. . . [/quote] That would just be disgusting, IMO.

[Nosevi]

This pretty much sums it up. Parents will then spend lots of money on his inspirational books and such. . .

I guess in all this that's the only bit I don't get. I don't find it inspiring to prove that, no matter how hard you try, no matter how much effort, dedication, time and positive mindset you apply to try to acomplish a goal, some things are frankly beyond you. It may be true but I don't find it inspiring.

I'd find it inspiring if he turned it around and actually got to pro tour level - make it through Q School and onto the Web.com Tour and I'd be 'inspired'. But I think he needs to quit the 'Dan against the world' mentality, get the help he needs, quit mucking about with media calls and glossy photo shoots and put in some serious work. If he doesn't get there after that at least he'll know he gave it his best shot.

If he were to find the next 18 months yields the same results as the last 18 month ie he's found his 'talent ceiling' what would the inspirational message be? Surely any inspirational message has to be grounded in some form of success?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

This pretty much sums it up. Parents will then spend lots of money on his inspirational books and such. . .

I guess in all this that's the only bit I don't get. I don't find it inspiring to prove that, no matter how hard you try, no matter how much effort, dedication, time and positive mindset you apply to try to acomplish a goal, some things are frankly beyond you. It may be true but I don't find it inspiring.

I'd find it inspiring if he turned it around and actually got to pro tour level - make it through Q School and onto the Web.com Tour and I'd be 'inspired'. But I think he needs to quit the 'Dan against the world' mentality, get the help he needs, quit mucking about with media calls and glossy photo shoots and put in some serious work. If he doesn't get there after that at least he'll know he gave it his best shot.

If he were to find the next 18 months yields the same results as the last 18 month ie he's found his 'talent ceiling' what would the inspirational message be? Surely any inspirational message has to be grounded in some form of success?

He's reached his talent ceiling for sure. This is by itself somewhat inspirational.

The goal of most normal parents is to make sure their children reach their potential as well. It would be counterproductive for a parent to "help" their kids to become a PGA pro if they can barely break 90 when they are 10-12 years old. A somewhat reasonable goal for that kid could be to reach let's say a 10 handicap by the time they are in high school, and most parents will create an environment for that child to reach that goal. It all depends upon the child's talent potential what goal their parents help them achieve. Some parents are delusional, but most parents have some idea of what their kids can do and help them as much as they can.

The inspirational part of Dan's plan is that he pushed himself to his potential, which is really what most parents want their kids to do.

I agree that Dan has not exactly been forthright in his portrayal of his abilities, and further that he probably wasted a lot of time getting to where he is. Unfortunately, golf is really hard, and many of us have spun our wheels to get to wherever we are, and many of us will never see our fullest potential. He has, and that's kind of cool.

[buckshot4227]

He's reached his talent ceiling for sure. This is by itself somewhat inspirational.

The goal of most normal parents is to make sure their children reach their potential as well. It would be counterproductive for a parent to "help" their kids to become a PGA pro if they can barely break 90 when they are 10-12 years old. A somewhat reasonable goal for that kid could be to reach let's say a 10 handicap by the time they are in high school, and most parents will create an environment for that child to reach that goal. It all depends upon the child's talent potential what goal their parents help them achieve. Some parents are delusional, but most parents have some idea of what their kids can do and help them as much as they can.

The inspirational part of Dan's plan is that he pushed himself to his potential, which is really what most parents want their kids to do.

I agree that Dan has not exactly been forthright in his portrayal of his abilities, and further that he probably wasted a lot of time getting to where he is. Unfortunately, golf is really hard, and many of us have spun our wheels to get to wherever we are, and many of us will never see our fullest potential. He has, and that's kind of cool.

I think that should read, most parents are delusional, but some parents have some idea of what their kids can do and help them as much as they can.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

He's reached his talent ceiling for sure. This is by itself somewhat inspirational.

The goal of most normal parents is to make sure their children reach their potential as well. It would be counterproductive for a parent to "help" their kids to become a PGA pro if they can barely break 90 when they are 10-12 years old. A somewhat reasonable goal for that kid could be to reach let's say a 10 handicap by the time they are in high school, and most parents will create an environment for that child to reach that goal. It all depends upon the child's talent potential what goal their parents help them achieve. Some parents are delusional, but most parents have some idea of what their kids can do and help them as much as they can.

The inspirational part of Dan's plan is that he pushed himself to his potential, which is really what most parents want their kids to do.

I agree that Dan has not exactly been forthright in his portrayal of his abilities, and further that he probably wasted a lot of time getting to where he is. Unfortunately, golf is really hard, and many of us have spun our wheels to get to wherever we are, and many of us will never see our fullest potential. He has, and that's kind of cool.

I think that should read, most parents are delusional, but some parents have some idea of what their kids can do and help them as much as they can.

I can see where you might think this. . .

[RFKFREAK]

He's reached his talent ceiling for sure. This is by itself somewhat inspirational. The goal of most normal parents is to make sure their children reach their potential as well. It would be counterproductive for a parent to "help" their kids to become a PGA pro if they can barely break 90 when they are 10-12 years old. A somewhat reasonable goal for that kid could be to reach let's say a 10 handicap by the time they are in high school, and most parents will create an environment for that child to reach that goal. It all depends upon the child's talent potential what goal their parents help them achieve. Some parents are delusional, but most parents have some idea of what their kids can do and help them as much as they can. The inspirational part of Dan's plan is that he pushed himself to his potential, which is really what most parents want their kids to do. I agree that Dan has not exactly been forthright in his portrayal of his abilities, and further that he probably wasted a lot of time getting to where he is. Unfortunately, golf is really hard, and many of us have spun our wheels to get to wherever we are, and many of us will never see our fullest potential. He has, and that's kind of cool.

Dude, you are definitely a, "glass is half full," kind of guy, aren't you? Haha. I look at Dan and don't see anything inspirational about him. A little off topic but I see a guy like James Hahn as inspirational. A guy who was selling shoes and decided to give it one last shot, cashed for a few thousand dollars in a tournament, and from all appearances, took that score and dedicated himself by implementing deliberate practice in a way Dan probably wouldn't even begin to understand. At this point, Dan's, "plan," is a farce.