The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Lihu]

I'm no MD but suffered from constant back pain from 18 (when I injured it rowing in college) until about age 43.  I did not have a pain free day over that 25 year period and had multiple bouts where I could not get out of the house.  I had multiple MRIs over that period, a few epidural steroid injections, several different physical therapists, a few different chiropractors, etc.  I suffered only intermittent, minor sciatica, which makes my situation like Dan's.  We can surmise he does not have sciatica as he has never mentioned pain radiating down his legs, numbness, etc.

I've researched the heck out of back pain and learned some interesting things:  (a) there is little to no evidence that surgery relieves back pain (as distinguished from sciatica); (b) cortisone injections are pretty good for relieving sciatica, but don't do much for back pain.  The medical profession has never really been able to find a successful treatment for back pain.  It tends to go away and then the sufferer has periodic bouts.  If you take 100 patients suffering from back pain (but not sciatica), put 1/2 in physical therapy and 1/2 to just manage as best they can, there is unlikely to be any statistically significant difference in results of treatment if you check in on them a few months later.  The same is true of chiropractic treatment.  We don't really know why some patients get better and some don't.

If you took MRIs of 100 healthy people and 100 people with back pain (but who do not suffer sciatica), and gave those to a pathologist, he or she could not tell you which group was which.  So, the fact that Dan has (as I did and, presumably do) a bulging disk may or may not coincide with his back pain.

So, that's what Dan is up against.

The only thing that seemed to work for me (and I get it, sample size of 1), was gritting my teeth for a full year and devoting myself to squatting (started with the bar and no weight, so 45 pounds), deadlifting (started with 95 pounds), the other basic barbell lifts, and a lot of walking.  I'm completely pain free and able to play as much golf as I want (played 7 rounds in 4 days recently).  I've had one flare up in the past 5 years, which lasted a few days but from which I recovered very, very quickly as compared to the past.

Dan, probably because he's been in a lot of pain, has put on some weight.  It's a vicious circle.  You hurt, so you can't get any exercise.  As a result, you put on a bit of weight, and it hurts more because that weight puts more stress on your back.

Wow, sounds like you are an expert on back pain. I suppose that's why you were so deliberate in your questions in his blogs?

You put on weight as you age for a variety of reasons as well. Maybe he's spending more time resting. His swing is really shallow with the driver, but it doesn't look horrible to me?

[tdiii]

Wow, sounds like you are an expert on back pain. I suppose that's why you were so deliberate in your questions in his blogs?

You put on weight as you age for a variety of reasons as well. Maybe he's spending more time resting. His swing is really shallow with the driver, but it doesn't look horrible to me?

I've had more than my share of back pain, I will say that.  Life sure is a bunch better when you are not constantly uncomfortable.

I can't explain why, but Dan's swing just seems to me to lack athleticism.  And that is not a function of club head speed, it is the movement.  I played this weekend with a HS girl who has a +1.3 handicap.  She is 5'9" (so Dan's height) and drives consistently drives it between 230 and 240 (13 our of 14 fairways hit).  Obviously doesn't hit is as far as Dan, but her swing is way more athletic looking.

I thought the new swings in that video looked a little bit better -- a bit short of parallel.  But he still is picking it up with his hands rather than with a turn.  It also looks to me like he forces the finish rather than allowing his swing to take him to the finish.  I couldn't tell you why, but that's what I see.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Wow, sounds like you are an expert on back pain. I suppose that's why you were so deliberate in your questions in his blogs?

You put on weight as you age for a variety of reasons as well. Maybe he's spending more time resting. His swing is really shallow with the driver, but it doesn't look horrible to me?

I've had more than my share of back pain, I will say that.  Life sure is a bunch better when you are not constantly uncomfortable.

I can't explain why, but Dan's swing just seems to me to lack athleticism.  And that is not a function of club head speed, it is the movement.  I played this weekend with a HS girl who has a +1.3 handicap.  She is 5'9" (so Dan's height) and drives consistently drives it between 230 and 240 (13 our of 14 fairways hit), maybe even 250 on occasion.  Obviously doesn't hit is as far as Dan, but her swing is way more athletic looking.

I thought the new swings in that video looked a little bit better -- a bit short of parallel.  But he still is picking it up with his hands rather than with a turn.  It also looks to me like he forces the finish rather than allowing his swing to take him to the finish.  I couldn't tell you why, but that's what I see.

To your point, I think +1.3HC for a lady is about a 4-5 HC for men. So, Dan should look even that much better? Her swing might look a lot more athletic because you are there in person as well? Also in general, men have more fast twitch muscle so maybe he can explode them at the right time so he does not require as much visible athleticism? I agree it looks funky at the end, he's still got that twitchy thing at the end of his swing that I've never really seen in a really good player before.

Plus, you are more than likely a better judge at seeing talent as well. I'm not really all that great at telling, but fortunately I essentially play for peanuts so I'm okay with that.

[BerkeleyRehab]

.  It's a vicious circle.  You hurt, so you can't get any exercise.  As a result, you put on a bit of weight, and it hurts more because that weight puts more stress on your back.

Same with golf.  You don't play and you get worse and don't want to play.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdiii

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Thanks for posting up. Interesting there's a few answers on there that, for whatever reason, aren't on his site ie What's wrong with his back and is he doing short game to fill the time. Not really sure why he's not put anything about them on his site.

I had the same thought.  I also find it interesting that he is sticking to the 2-3 handicap horsecr@p.

One question it did answer pretty loud and clear - if he doesn't make it, it's because of the injury. At least that's the message I got from listening to that.

And did you catch the reason he gives for the injury? Because of mats... and simply hitting too many balls for a long period of time.

So the reasoning goes:

A. Project on track (After all, his handicap between 2 and 3! No mention that he hasn't been at his goal scoring level since early 2013 )

B. Project came off track due to injury only. (No mention of the plateau he clearly hit, well documented here on TST via graphs )

C. Injury was in large part due to hard work.

Therefore, the project was only off track because of hard work (A->B->C = A->C). This saves face to begin book and speaking tour.

I wish him luck in his golf endeavors, but there's a little too much hiding of reality (his actual scores/trends, his actual deliberate practice methodology, etc) to make me feel satisfied with the effort. I had high hopes, was cheering him on, but now it feels a little corrupted. Sorry, Dan. Wish it weren't so, but he seems to have proven the corollary to his original goal:

Quote: (http://thedanplan.com/about/)

But the plan isn’t really about golf: through this process, Dan hopes to prove to himself and others that it’s never too late to start a new pursuit in life.

Corollary:

...or maybe sometimes it is too late, when the endeavor is a vigorous, athletic body movement that takes incredible talent, but you are a middle-aged person with little experience in sports.

Injuries can happen, or you might find that you hit a plateau. Reality could intrude.

[Pretzel]

So, in light of opposing the size snobbery me and the other players put up with this morning, we don't really know where the ball ends up and maybe he really is a 2 to 3? Only Dan really knows the truth.

The handicap argument has nothing to do with size, and we do know where the ball ends up. Didn't he put up a Trackman combine a while ago that showed he couldn't even carry the ball 250 yards, and with somewhat iffy accuracy?

I will just say about Dan's swing that, in the last 3 years of me playing between 10 and 20 competitive tournaments a year, I have yet to see a golfer with skill similar to mine who had a swing at all resembling Dan's. Dan just looks uncomfortable with a club in his hands. I could be incorrect about this, but I usually watch the different players on the driving range beforehand to see people's swings and I compare that to the scores I see at the end.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3402#post_1192830"] So, in light of opposing the size snobbery me and the other players put up with this morning, we don't really know where the ball ends up and maybe he really is a 2 to 3? Only Dan really knows the truth. [/QUOTE] The handicap argument has nothing to do with size, and we do know where the ball ends up. Didn't he put up a Trackman combine a while ago that showed he couldn't even carry the ball 250 yards, and with somewhat iffy accuracy? I will just say about Dan's swing that, in the last 3 years of me playing between 10 and 20 competitive tournaments a year, I have yet to see a golfer with skill similar to mine who had a swing at all resembling Dan's. Dan just looks uncomfortable with a club in his hands. I could be incorrect about this, but I usually watch the different players on the driving range beforehand to see people's swings and I compare that to the scores I see at the end.

True, I'm definitely not discounting that he could be a low double digit player as well. To be fair, the Combine was 2 years ago. Who knows what he can do now?

[RFKFREAK]

Looks like a recent interview. If that's his swing w/the bad back, it looks slower, but pretty much the same.

Wow, his physical change is pretty big and he also looks resigned that he's not going to finish the plan.

I'm not saying he'll do it purposefully but it certainly is a way for him to save face and still try and make some money if he chooses.

[newtogolf]

Wow, his physical change is pretty big and he also looks resigned that he's not going to finish the plan.

I'm not saying he'll do it purposefully but it certainly is a way for him to save face and still try and make some money if he chooses.

He looks disheveled  in the video, the beard, if intentional, is not a flattering look for him.  His shirt collars are rolled, he's wearing shorts and his complexion looks horrible.  There would be nothing wrong with his look if he was just a regular golfer like us but for a guy who is trying to attract sponsors it's not the way you want to present yourself.   His body language and facial gestures indicate a lack of intensity and confidence in what he's saying.  Overall this video will not help him attract sponsors imo unless it's out of pity.

[natureboy]

Doesn't sound like he is giving up, yet.

Disk / lower back / sciatica pain is a real bummer in your life. I found that something I really need to be conscious of is keeping hamstrings from tightening up.

I guess he is trying to be 'one plane', but he has the flattest driver backswing I've ever seen.

[TimB]

Dan, when asked about what a day in the life looks like, starts by saying that it changes with the season and the says, "Right now, you can post scores again up here in Oregon so I'm just playing a lot of golf.  Trying to get tournament ready.  Focusing on score, focusing on competition.  Making sure there's something on the line. .. ."  So, why no posted scores on GHIN since April? He basically says, that on the day of the interview, he will go out and work on a specific type of bunker shot for an hour, then play a round of golf with some guys who he knows to be good golfers, and then after the round maybe spend an hour working on any particular weakness from that round.  Doesn't sound very deliberate to me.

Right. It's not deliberate. He should sit down with an older retired touring pro and design a real practice method that's already been tested. I think he does prove that 10,000 hours makes you pretty good, but it's not enough to turn you into a touring pro. In addition to practice and 10,000 hours you needs 1) Natural ability (sorry, but talent is not manufactured) 2) Desire/passion 3) Top thought (creativity). You can't just fill in some hours at the job and automatically become Hunter Mahan!

[mchepp]

He looks disheveled  in the video, the beard, if intentional, is not a flattering look for him.  His shirt collars are rolled, he's wearing shorts and his complexion looks horrible.  There would be nothing wrong with his look if he was just a regular golfer like us but for a guy who is trying to attract sponsors it's not the way you want to present yourself.   His body language and facial gestures indicate a lack of intensity and confidence in what he's saying.  Overall this video will not help him attract sponsors imo unless it's out of pity.

Nah, he just looks like he is from Portland.

At least to the dirty beard, rolled shirt collar, bad complexion and shorts part.

[Dapadre]

Not wanting to sound like an expert but from someone who has also had chronic back issues (runs in the family) for over 25 years, I think I may have spotted an issue with Dan. From my naked eye he seems to have a very weak CORE. I went on a journey myself some 25 years ago when I was diagnosed with a herniated disk. Back then surgery was a 50/50 option because of scar tissue. So I went the other route.........learn to live with it. But in learning to live with it I have learned via research and luckily my brother later became a certified trainer ( is currently the physical trainer for a professional soccer team in the MLS as we speak) that there are certain things one must do.

1 Control weight

2 Control diet in that certain foods actually increase inflammation. This is something MANY ppl dont know. One culprit, peanut butter

3 Stretching, exercise/training  and some YOGA

4 CORE, CORE, CORE!

The last is of GREAT importance. Once I developed a strong core, I went practically pain free. I went from a scale 1 -10, to a 1 in terms of pain. Like one gentleman said above, I also incorporated believe it or not squatting and deadlifting. Contrary to what many believe, they are actually NOT bad for your back, but must be done with good form. Something I learned from my brother. I can now squat 400lbs and DL 400 lbs, im 5'11 190 lbs.

Golf used to be a struggle with a hurting back because apart from the pain, it starts to play mind games with you too. Dan will not be able to progress with out getting that under control.

[Lihu]

There's definitely some argument for stronger core muscles. Everything from his swing that lacks oomph to back issues probably stem from a weak core. He's also got to stop that extra twitch thing where he torques his back at the end of swing. It looks painful to me.

[nevets88]

That twitch if I'm interpreting twitch correctly looks like someone who takes hips fire before upper body too literally. Based on my layman's analysis of his swing, he fires the hips back to target so quickly, they don't get a chance to turn back more, which I'm guessing is a power inhibitor.

Looking at his swing from a 5SK perspective, his head is pretty steady, he gets his weight forward, maybe more needs to forward earlier? His wrist seems to be flat oops, or rather, he looks pretty inline at impact. He can have a wonky BS and get away w/it but like @mvmac said, it would make things more easier, better chance to get better downswing conditions if he didn't have the up and in backswing.

Basically, I haven't seen any wholesale changes in his swing for a long time but I'm no instructor and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and as I've stated before, I don't agree w/him it's a mental block w/resp to his scoring (if that's still his opinion), it's his swing.

[Lihu]

That twitch if I'm interpreting twitch correctly looks like someone who takes hips fire before upper body too literally. Based on my layman's analysis of his swing, he fires the hips back to target so quickly, they don't get a chance to turn back more, which I'm guessing is a power inhibitor.

Looking at his swing from a 5SK perspective, his head is pretty steady, he gets his weight forward, maybe more needs to forward earlier? His wrist seems to be flat oops, or rather, he looks pretty inline at impact. He can have a wonky BS and get away w/it but like @mvmac said, it would make things more easier, better chance to get better downswing conditions if he didn't have the up and in backswing.

This is what I think as well. His swing is not the worst in the world, but most likely not a 2 handicap swing? He lacks the oomph to be able to compensate for any swing flaws.

It might really stem from lack of proper core strength training. Actually, many golfers including me are guilty to not doing enough core training.

Basically, I haven't seen any wholesale changes in his swing for a long time but I'm no instructor and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and as I've stated before, I don't agree w/him it's a mental block w/resp to his scoring (if that's still his opinion), it's his swing.

IDK, but it looks better in these videos. His driver is very flat, but other than that it doesn't really look all that bad?

In terms of Dan being a 2-3 handicap? There are exceptions to everything. . .Not everyone is a young high school or collegiate golfer who carries drives 275 yards, carries their 6i 180 yards and has a perfect flexible swing with all 5 keys.

I do know a scratch golfer who doesn't have a very pretty swing, and doesn't hit all that far either (230-240 yards total drives?). He hits the ball straight, and enough to get to the green on most par 4. I didn't really watch him carefully or anything, but it looked like he scrambled far over 50%-60% from up to 80 yards or so (possibly better than the PGA average? IDK what is the PGA average?). I also know another golfer who is a 3, who gets over 80% from 100 yards in 2 shots. He's working on getting 100%. I know another 8 handicap, who can barely drive 200 yards hits a wood onto the greens and makes over 50% of his putts from 20 feet.

These might be "impossible" in the minds of people on this site, but I've seen them on a regular basis shooting to their handicaps or better. So, I'm never too fast at saying that something is impossible.

[tdiii]

Not wanting to sound like an expert but from someone who has also had chronic back issues (runs in the family) for over 25 years, I think I may have spotted an issue with Dan. From my naked eye he seems to have a very weak CORE. I went on a journey myself some 25 years ago when I was diagnosed with a herniated disk. Back then surgery was a 50/50 option because of scar tissue. So I went the other route.........learn to live with it. But in learning to live with it I have learned via research and luckily my brother later became a certified trainer ( is currently the physical trainer for a professional soccer team in the MLS as we speak) that there are certain things one must do.

1 Control weight

2 Control diet in that certain foods actually increase inflammation. This is something MANY ppl dont know. One culprit, peanut butter

3 Stretching, exercise/training  and some YOGA

4 CORE, CORE, CORE!

The last is of GREAT importance. Once I developed a strong core, I went practically pain free. I went from a scale 1 -10, to a 1 in terms of pain. Like one gentleman said above, I also incorporated believe it or not squatting and deadlifting. Contrary to what many believe, they are actually NOT bad for your back, but must be done with good form. Something I learned from my brother. I can now squat 400lbs and DL 400 lbs, im 5'11 190 lbs.

Golf used to be a struggle with a hurting back because apart from the pain, it starts to play mind games with you too. Dan will not be able to progress with out getting that under control.

Good stuff.  The core strength required to deadlift 400 and squat 400 far exceeds what one would ever develop doing bosu ball crunches.  The great thing about barbell training is you can very slowly, deliberately, and precisely increase load over time and thereby gradually develop that core strength.  Done with a full range of motion, the squat increases flexibility, as well.  I'm glad your brother pointed you in the right direction.

[Dapadre]

Good stuff.  The core strength required to deadlift 400 and squat 400 far exceeds what one would ever develop doing bosu ball crunches.  The great thing about barbell training is you can very slowly, deliberately, and precisely increase load over time and thereby gradually develop that core strength.  Done with a full range of motion, the squat increases flexibility, as well.  I'm glad your brother pointed you in the right direction.

Yes, im indebted to him on that. The crazy thing was when he first mentioned squats or DL, I like most ppl said I cant, I have a bad back. The crazy thing is when done correctly, your stabilisation muscles along with your core become so developed. Also as you rightfully mentioned one can event start ( as I did) with a very light weight and go really slow but with good from.