The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretzel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Current is 5.4 and 3.1 was the lowest. I'm always surprised when during an interview they say he's scratch.

"3.1" was the lowest. Somehow I doubt he ever actually played to that level.

He must have a really killer short game, and he got his handicap playing a single course. Might be possible?

Define "really killer short game".

His scrambling percentage over his last 5 rounds on golfshots is 23%. Over the last 20 it's 30%. Hitting green in reg on less than 50% of occasions and getting up and down, on average, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the time isn't going to equate to a 3 handicapper.

I didn't even notice that.

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="RandallT" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3270_10#post_1166314"] [CONTENTEMBED=/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3240_30#post_1166051 layout=inline] [/CONTENTEMBED] [CONTENTEMBED=/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3240_30#post_1166051 layout=inline]...[/CONTENTEMBED] [CONTENTEMBED=/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3240_30#post_1166051 layout=inline] [/CONTENTEMBED] I did think this was an interesting snippet from his most recent blog post: [QUOTE] [COLOR=333333]In fact most of the round was played hitting a fade as I was afraid[/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000] to try and drop the club in the slot [/COLOR] [COLOR=333333]and create a draw. The draw swing tends to really aggravate this injury. The good news is that even with a long time of not playing I shot a 1-over 37 with a birdie on the last hole.  Very pleased that after the long hiatus the game seemed to still be there.  As long as I focussed on a slow even tempo I could execute my shots.[/COLOR] [/QUOTE] Would a draw swing be significantly different from a fade swing such that it would impact your lower back differently? I don't work on this much since I'm nowhere near good enough to go beyond the keys identified for me, but my understanding is that you simply adjust your aim and your club face- but the swing is mostly the same. Dan makes it seem like "dropping the club in the slot" creates a draw. ... [/QUOTE] Dropping into slot - that's shallowing the shaft from the end of the backswing, yes? Please correct me if I'm wrong. And he's steepening on the downswing, no? Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. Yellow is backswing, red is downswing. I'm not fond of that term, dropping into the slot - can't it be interpreted multiple ways? Also the word drop. Taken literally, dropping the hands too much will steepen the shaft I think. Like hit down people take the down too literally. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/127265/] [/URL] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/127266/] [/URL]

[Nosevi]

Re: the misleading, Dan said his current handicap was high 3's at Chambers Bay during the US Open (June 2015). His GHIN reflects it was 5.4 for over a month before that. He should've been aware it jumped from high 3's to mid-5's by April 2015.  There's certainly no proof he was deliberately lying, but his answer was most definitely not the truth at that moment

Randy, you're right I'm being a tad harsh. It's possibly he just had a mental block which is why he didn't answer the first time he was asked and rather than saying "I don't remember." simply made it up. His handicap went to 5.5 six weeks before that interview and didn't drop below 5.4 until it. The stats page on his site had already been updated to reflect a 5.5 handicap by the time of the interview and he had played for a full month since his handicap had gone up including at least one tournament at another club. My call is there's zero chance he didn't know about his handicap going up but there is a chance he simply went blank during the interview. I'll go back to giving him the benefit of the doubt

[RandallT]

Randy, you're right I'm being a tad harsh. It's possibly he just had a mental block which is why he didn't answer the first time he was asked and rather than saying "I don't remember." simply made it up. His handicap went to 5.5 six weeks before that interview and didn't drop below 5.4 until it. The stats page on his site had already been updated to reflect a 5.5 handicap by the time of the interview and he had played for a full month since his handicap had gone up including at least one tournament at another club. My call is there's zero chance he didn't know about his handicap going up but there is a chance he simply went blank during the interview. I'll go back to giving him the benefit of the doubt

Well, as we discussed via email, I'm actually closer to where you are than I am thinking it was an innocent mistake. I had written a little thing on his body language in the interview when asked about his handicap, but then deleted it cuz I realized it was all me making stuff up.

[Nosevi]

[QUOTE name="Nosevi" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3270_30#post_1166353"]   [CONTENTEMBED=/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3258#post_1166314 layout=inline]Randy, you're right I'm being a tad harsh. It's possibly he just had a mental block which is why he didn't answer the first time he was asked and rather than saying "I don't remember." simply made it up. His handicap went to 5.5 six weeks before that interview and didn't drop below 5.4 until it. The stats page on his site had already been updated to reflect a 5.5 handicap by the time of the interview and he had played for a full month since his handicap had gone up including at least one tournament at another club. My call is there's zero chance he didn't know about his handicap going up but there is a chance he simply went blank during the interview. I'll go back to giving him the benefit of the doubt :-) [/CONTENTEMBED] [/QUOTE] Well, as we discussed via email, I'm actually closer to where you are than I am thinking it was an innocent mistake. I had written a little thing on his body language in the interview when asked about his handicap, but then deleted it cuz I realized it was all me making stuff up.

Yep, but I guess there's a chance he simply went blank with the mic in front of him (although the counter to that is he's had a fair bit of practice...). I think my point to Lihu is valid though - he doesn't appear to have a killer short game looking at his stats and looking at that backswing vs downswing you'll struggle all day if you're steeper on the downswing yet below the backswing plane. In fact I have no idea how you can effetively hit the ball like that. Shallower and below the backswing on the downswing is likely to encourage a draw, steeper and above is likely to encourage a fade. All steeper and below is likely to encourage is a lost ball.

[Unkynd]

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

[nevets88]

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

I think we're calling it like we see it and trying to give the benefit of the doubt. If you look on other larger forums, opinions are less forgiving than here.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unkynd

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

I think we're calling it like we see it and trying to give the benefit of the doubt. If you look on other larger forums, opinions are less forgiving than here.

Absolutely! I found this forum via Dan, and was once told here that I must be his publicist. I'm a sucker for these stories, and it's been interesting for me follow along and to think through how I might've approached something like this. I'd have failed miserably too, but I'd have reported on it better!  A little more golf, a little more stats and detailed (applicable) blog posts, a lot less media, zero video blogs like he had going for a while. Those episode videos on Vimeo must've been exhausting- they are actually quite nicely produced, doubt it was worth the effort.

Not sure what SnT/evolution (evolvr?) has to do with anything. We're not mindless automatons here. Or are we?

[b101]

Absolutely! I found this forum via Dan, and was once told here that I must be his publicist. I'm a sucker for these stories, and it's been interesting for me follow along and to think through how I might've approached something like this. I'd have failed miserably too, but I'd have reported on it better!  A little more golf, a little more stats and detailed (applicable) blog posts, a lot less media, zero video blogs like he had going for a while. Those episode videos on Vimeo must've been exhausting- they are actually quite nicely produced, doubt it was worth the effort.

To be honest though, most people's swing threads contain a better 'plan' and summary of progress... I do want him to do well (not a fan of ever wishing ill on people), but I'd be far more sympathetic if he wasn't so damn stubborn/wilfully ignorant

[mchepp]

To be honest though, most people's swing threads contain a better 'plan' and summary of progress... I do want him to do well (not a fan of ever wishing ill on people), but I'd be far more sympathetic if he wasn't so damn stubborn/wilfully ignorant

I think this is pretty well said.

In talking with him the attitude was very clearly I know what is best for me because someone else I spoke to was an authority and they told me it was the best way. The authority being a golf professional or whatever professional. He did not consider that the authority might be...well, wrong. I get the sense he lacks a curiosity for knowledge.

I guess this could be okay if the plan was going well. If he was winning local events and trying to qualify for the web.com or something really good. Ignorance is bliss, right? But its not and now he is looking a little lost.

[natureboy]

Absolutely! I found this forum via Dan, and was once told here that I must be his publicist. I'm a sucker for these stories, and it's been interesting for me follow along and to think through how I might've approached something like this. I'd have failed miserably too, but I'd have reported on it better!  A little more golf, a little more stats and detailed (applicable) blog posts, a lot less media, zero video blogs like he had going for a while. Those episode videos on Vimeo must've been exhausting- they are actually quite nicely produced, doubt it was worth the effort.

Not sure what SnT/evolution (evolvr?) has to do with anything. We're not mindless automatons here. Or are we?

Not sure that nice production isn't worth a bit of effort. I followed some of Cristo's 'Swing Evolution' vids for a bit. He had some decent info on Hogan summarized from other sources so it was of interest. The vids had some music and were pretty well edited with decent sound and I think that help me stay engaged. I lost interest when he started onto other (probably 'monetizing') directions.

[natureboy]

Define "really killer short game".

His scrambling percentage over his last 5 rounds on golfshots is 23%. Over the last 20 it's 30%. Hitting green in reg on less than 50% of occasions and getting up and down, on average, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the time isn't going to equate to a 3 handicapper.

By Dave Pelz' stats 23% corresponds with his ~5 HCP and 30% corresponds with about scratch. If his long game / iron play is poorer than average for his HCP his short game could be compensating and helping keep his scores similar to Mike Weir but at a different skill level.

A more accurate indicator of the relative strength of his short game would be the median leave from a range of short game distances compared to Broadie's ESC tables. Trackman combine really only covers longish pitches so he might be saving a lot of strokes inside 60 yards.

[iacas]

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

Not remotely accurate.

You also missed the several pages where Dan was supposedly very interested in coming out to see us this summer.

[garybbq]

Not remotely accurate.

You also missed the several pages where Dan was supposedly very interested in coming out to see us this summer.

Was he ever "very interested" I thought he basically said I'll get in touch with you and never did?

[b101]

Was he ever "very interested" I thought he basically said I'll get in touch with you and never did?

I think that's why Erik said 'supposedly'!

[iacas]

I think that's why Erik said 'supposedly'!

He was going to call, then never did.

[Vinsk]

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

I wouldn't call it all negativity....constructive criticism more or less. I must say I believe had Dave and Erik started with him, separation value would've saved him a lot of wasted effort.

[Nosevi]

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

Sorry but you're a long way off on that one. I neither have a SnT swing nor do I use evolvr. I don't have massive negativity towards Dan either. The handicap thing stumped me a bit though. Many have said he's been dishonest at times about his progress and I've always said that I don't believe he has been - check back through my posts. I've said I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one but you have to admit it's a stretch to say a guy who plays golf every day doesn't know what his handicap is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by b101

To be honest though, most people's swing threads contain a better 'plan' and summary of progress... I do want him to do well (not a fan of ever wishing ill on people), but I'd be far more sympathetic if he wasn't so damn stubborn/wilfully ignorant

I think this is pretty well said.

In talking with him the attitude was very clearly I know what is best for me because someone else I spoke to was an authority and they told me it was the best way. The authority being a golf professional or whatever professional. He did not consider that the authority might be...well, wrong. I get the sense he lacks a curiosity for knowledge.

I guess this could be okay if the plan was going well. If he was winning local events and trying to qualify for the web.com or something really good. Ignorance is bliss, right? But its not and now he is looking a little lost.

This is basically where I am. I've been a little harsh on Dan a few times but it's born out of huge frustration and certainly not a will for him to fail. In fact it's quite the opposite, I very much want him to succeed if only to show it can be done. I've actually spent my own money taken from my 'golf training account' trying to help him (not a donation) but at the end of the day he didn't want to go down the route I was suggesting even though I've had pretty big success using this route. His call I guess.

He has to realise that things are not on track. He has to, no one is that daft. And when things aren't working you change your approach.

Quick quiz (Google not allowed) - who said " The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." - Answers below please :)

He has to know the 'go out and just play lots of golf' approach isn't working. 5 years in, handicap going up, he must know it. He must know distance off the tee is an issue. He must know his GIR isn't in the right ball park. He must know his scrambling stats aren't good enough. He must know averaging over 80 vs CR is not going to cut it at any level.

So where is the details of the intensive fitness regime to help address distance off the tee? Where is the coach addressing the swing plane issues shown in those frames a few posts ago (below the back swing plane, butt end of the club pointing WAY inside the ball, I'd probably hit my foot rather than the ball if I was that far off plane)? Where's the deliberate practice posts addressing chipping and putting? For a programme based on the theory of deliberate practice I'm hard pressed to find any after about year 2.

Doing something like this is hard but it's also an opportunity that many don't get. I just feel, right now, he's wasting that opportunity. Personal opinion is Dan needs to make some radical changes in his approach or he will fail. I have tried to tell him this but thus far I have been totally unsuccessful, nothing has changed in his approach.

Anyway, I'm sorry to say @Unkynd you are massively wide of the mark, many of us want Dan to succeed but he won't do unless he changes his approach. It's that simple.