The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Unkynd]

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

[nevets88]

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

I think we're calling it like we see it and trying to give the benefit of the doubt. If you look on other larger forums, opinions are less forgiving than here.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unkynd

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

I think we're calling it like we see it and trying to give the benefit of the doubt. If you look on other larger forums, opinions are less forgiving than here.

Absolutely! I found this forum via Dan, and was once told here that I must be his publicist. I'm a sucker for these stories, and it's been interesting for me follow along and to think through how I might've approached something like this. I'd have failed miserably too, but I'd have reported on it better!  A little more golf, a little more stats and detailed (applicable) blog posts, a lot less media, zero video blogs like he had going for a while. Those episode videos on Vimeo must've been exhausting- they are actually quite nicely produced, doubt it was worth the effort.

Not sure what SnT/evolution (evolvr?) has to do with anything. We're not mindless automatons here. Or are we?

[b101]

Absolutely! I found this forum via Dan, and was once told here that I must be his publicist. I'm a sucker for these stories, and it's been interesting for me follow along and to think through how I might've approached something like this. I'd have failed miserably too, but I'd have reported on it better!  A little more golf, a little more stats and detailed (applicable) blog posts, a lot less media, zero video blogs like he had going for a while. Those episode videos on Vimeo must've been exhausting- they are actually quite nicely produced, doubt it was worth the effort.

To be honest though, most people's swing threads contain a better 'plan' and summary of progress... I do want him to do well (not a fan of ever wishing ill on people), but I'd be far more sympathetic if he wasn't so damn stubborn/wilfully ignorant

[mchepp]

To be honest though, most people's swing threads contain a better 'plan' and summary of progress... I do want him to do well (not a fan of ever wishing ill on people), but I'd be far more sympathetic if he wasn't so damn stubborn/wilfully ignorant

I think this is pretty well said.

In talking with him the attitude was very clearly I know what is best for me because someone else I spoke to was an authority and they told me it was the best way. The authority being a golf professional or whatever professional. He did not consider that the authority might be...well, wrong. I get the sense he lacks a curiosity for knowledge.

I guess this could be okay if the plan was going well. If he was winning local events and trying to qualify for the web.com or something really good. Ignorance is bliss, right? But its not and now he is looking a little lost.

[natureboy]

Absolutely! I found this forum via Dan, and was once told here that I must be his publicist. I'm a sucker for these stories, and it's been interesting for me follow along and to think through how I might've approached something like this. I'd have failed miserably too, but I'd have reported on it better!  A little more golf, a little more stats and detailed (applicable) blog posts, a lot less media, zero video blogs like he had going for a while. Those episode videos on Vimeo must've been exhausting- they are actually quite nicely produced, doubt it was worth the effort.

Not sure what SnT/evolution (evolvr?) has to do with anything. We're not mindless automatons here. Or are we?

Not sure that nice production isn't worth a bit of effort. I followed some of Cristo's 'Swing Evolution' vids for a bit. He had some decent info on Hogan summarized from other sources so it was of interest. The vids had some music and were pretty well edited with decent sound and I think that help me stay engaged. I lost interest when he started onto other (probably 'monetizing') directions.

[natureboy]

Define "really killer short game".

His scrambling percentage over his last 5 rounds on golfshots is 23%. Over the last 20 it's 30%. Hitting green in reg on less than 50% of occasions and getting up and down, on average, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the time isn't going to equate to a 3 handicapper.

By Dave Pelz' stats 23% corresponds with his ~5 HCP and 30% corresponds with about scratch. If his long game / iron play is poorer than average for his HCP his short game could be compensating and helping keep his scores similar to Mike Weir but at a different skill level.

A more accurate indicator of the relative strength of his short game would be the median leave from a range of short game distances compared to Broadie's ESC tables. Trackman combine really only covers longish pitches so he might be saving a lot of strokes inside 60 yards.

[iacas]

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

Not remotely accurate.

You also missed the several pages where Dan was supposedly very interested in coming out to see us this summer.

[garybbq]

Not remotely accurate.

You also missed the several pages where Dan was supposedly very interested in coming out to see us this summer.

Was he ever "very interested" I thought he basically said I'll get in touch with you and never did?

[b101]

Was he ever "very interested" I thought he basically said I'll get in touch with you and never did?

I think that's why Erik said 'supposedly'!

[iacas]

I think that's why Erik said 'supposedly'!

He was going to call, then never did.

[Vinsk]

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

I wouldn't call it all negativity....constructive criticism more or less. I must say I believe had Dave and Erik started with him, separation value would've saved him a lot of wasted effort.

[Nosevi]

I bet if he was doing this with a SnT swing with evolution swing coaches there wouldn't be so much negativity in his direction on this forum.

Sorry but you're a long way off on that one. I neither have a SnT swing nor do I use evolvr. I don't have massive negativity towards Dan either. The handicap thing stumped me a bit though. Many have said he's been dishonest at times about his progress and I've always said that I don't believe he has been - check back through my posts. I've said I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one but you have to admit it's a stretch to say a guy who plays golf every day doesn't know what his handicap is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by b101

To be honest though, most people's swing threads contain a better 'plan' and summary of progress... I do want him to do well (not a fan of ever wishing ill on people), but I'd be far more sympathetic if he wasn't so damn stubborn/wilfully ignorant

I think this is pretty well said.

In talking with him the attitude was very clearly I know what is best for me because someone else I spoke to was an authority and they told me it was the best way. The authority being a golf professional or whatever professional. He did not consider that the authority might be...well, wrong. I get the sense he lacks a curiosity for knowledge.

I guess this could be okay if the plan was going well. If he was winning local events and trying to qualify for the web.com or something really good. Ignorance is bliss, right? But its not and now he is looking a little lost.

This is basically where I am. I've been a little harsh on Dan a few times but it's born out of huge frustration and certainly not a will for him to fail. In fact it's quite the opposite, I very much want him to succeed if only to show it can be done. I've actually spent my own money taken from my 'golf training account' trying to help him (not a donation) but at the end of the day he didn't want to go down the route I was suggesting even though I've had pretty big success using this route. His call I guess.

He has to realise that things are not on track. He has to, no one is that daft. And when things aren't working you change your approach.

Quick quiz (Google not allowed) - who said " The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." - Answers below please :)

He has to know the 'go out and just play lots of golf' approach isn't working. 5 years in, handicap going up, he must know it. He must know distance off the tee is an issue. He must know his GIR isn't in the right ball park. He must know his scrambling stats aren't good enough. He must know averaging over 80 vs CR is not going to cut it at any level.

So where is the details of the intensive fitness regime to help address distance off the tee? Where is the coach addressing the swing plane issues shown in those frames a few posts ago (below the back swing plane, butt end of the club pointing WAY inside the ball, I'd probably hit my foot rather than the ball if I was that far off plane)? Where's the deliberate practice posts addressing chipping and putting? For a programme based on the theory of deliberate practice I'm hard pressed to find any after about year 2.

Doing something like this is hard but it's also an opportunity that many don't get. I just feel, right now, he's wasting that opportunity. Personal opinion is Dan needs to make some radical changes in his approach or he will fail. I have tried to tell him this but thus far I have been totally unsuccessful, nothing has changed in his approach.

Anyway, I'm sorry to say @Unkynd you are massively wide of the mark, many of us want Dan to succeed but he won't do unless he changes his approach. It's that simple.

[Pretzel]

Albert Einstein

[Nosevi]

Albert Einstein

Correct, and he was a pretty smart bloke

I don't see why Dan seems not to have changed his approach at all in the last 2 years and is basically 'playing lots of golf in the hope of getting good'. Quite simply he is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Not saying he's insane or anything, just that he either seems to be ignoring the fact that it's not working or has no idea what other approach to take.

[Vinsk]

Sorry but you're a long way off on that one. I neither have a SnT swing nor do I use [COLOR=181818]evolvr. I don't have massive negativity towards Dan either. The handicap thing stumped me a bit though. Many have said he's been dishonest at times about his progress and I've always said that I don't believe he has been - check back through my posts. I've said I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one but you have to admit it's a stretch to say a guy who plays golf every day doesn't know what his handicap is.[/COLOR] This is basically where I am. I've been a little harsh on Dan a few times but it's born out of huge frustration and certainly not a will for him to fail. In fact it's quite the opposite, I very much want him to succeed if only to show it can be done. I've actually spent my own money taken from my 'golf training account' trying to help him (not a donation) but at the end of the day he didn't want to go down the route I was suggesting even though I've had pretty big success using this route. His call I guess. He has to realise that things are not on track. He has to, no one is that daft. And when things aren't working you change your approach. Quick quiz (Google not allowed) - who said "[COLOR=6A6A6A] The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." - [/COLOR]Answers below please :) He has to know the 'go out and just play lots of golf' approach isn't working. 5 years in, handicap going up, he must know it. He must know distance off the tee is an issue. He must know his GIR isn't in the right ball park. He must know his scrambling stats aren't good enough. He must know averaging over 80 vs CR is not going to cut it at any level. So where is the details of the intensive fitness regime to help address distance off the tee? Where is the coach addressing the swing plane issues shown in those frames a few posts ago (below the back swing plane, butt end of the club pointing WAY inside the ball, I'd probably hit my foot rather than the ball if I was that far off plane)? Where's the deliberate practice posts addressing chipping and putting? For a programme based on the theory of deliberate practice I'm hard pressed to find any after about year 2. Doing something like this is hard but it's also an opportunity that many don't get. I just feel, right now, he's wasting that opportunity. Personal opinion is Dan needs to make some radical changes in his approach or he will fail. I have tried to tell him this but thus far I have been totally unsuccessful, nothing has changed in his approach. Anyway, I'm sorry to say @Unkynd you are massively wide of the mark, many of us want Dan to succeed but he won't do unless he changes his approach. It's that simple.

Funny thing about Einstein quote is in golf..its been said that golfers always say they want "consistency". And it's been said that these golfers actually have a very consistent swing, just a bad one. Why then do we get so many different results (pulls, chunks, slices, hooks, tops) from doing the same thing over and over? I do the same swing over and over and not only expect but guarantee I'll get different results.

[acerimusdux]

Randy, you're right I'm being a tad harsh. It's possibly he just had a mental block which is why he didn't answer the first time he was asked and rather than saying "I don't remember." simply made it up. His handicap went to 5.5 six weeks before that interview and didn't drop below 5.4 until it.

The prior revision though, on 3/15, was a 3.9, and then at the time of the interview he hadn't really been playing for a couple of months. The back injury was 4/12, so not the reason his handicap went up.  So still a little sketchy, he should have known what his handicap was in early April when he had last been playing seriously, but probably hadn't paid attention to it since then.

[iacas]

Funny thing about Einstein quote is in golf..its been said that golfers always say they want "consistency". And it's been said that these golfers actually have a very consistent swing, just a bad one. Why then do we get so many different results (pulls, chunks, slices, hooks, tops) from doing the same thing over and over? I do the same swing over and over and not only expect but guarantee I'll get different results.

Because golf requires such precision that a swing that's essentially the same can result in a wide variety of results. A quarter inch here, a few degrees there… vastly different results.

I'm sure you've read it but: .