The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[nevets88]

All these people reality TVing their golf lessons. What I see in common is less than optimal instruction. They chose... poorly.  

[boogielicious]

I didn't follow this follow too much. I could see from comments by more experienced players that he fit into the "do it my way even though I don't know what I'm doing" mold. He also had a great ability to ignore sound advice. 

The whole saga just reminded me of one of the most profound proverbs in golf.

Spoiler

 

[Hardspoon]

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/the-dan-plan/536592/

[bkuehn1952]

 

30 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/the-dan-plan/536592/

Thanks. It appears Dan is never going to give closure to this folly.  The article is the only closure we are going to get.

[iacas]

54 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Thanks. It appears Dan is never going to give closure to this folly.  The article is the only closure we are going to get.

Well, we had the interview and the post mortem here on TST, too.

https://thesandtrap.com/b/throwing_darts/an_interview_with_the_dan_plan

https://thesandtrap.com/b/thrash_talk/post_mortem_on_the_dan_plan

[nevets88]

2 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

 

Thanks. It appears Dan is never going to give closure to this folly.  The article is the only closure we are going to get.

The article mentions closure:

Quote

Ericsson, for one, wants closure. He dreams of a foundation that would fund multiple Dans to devote themselves to excellence in different domains, mapping their steps for others. “For people in middle age, that sense some have that they’ve lost their chance is sad. If Dan could document his path more [that would give others] a trajectory.” Ericsson compares it to climbing a mountain: “The first person gets stuck but, over time, people figure out how to get to the top.”

 

[mailman]

When I watched some of Dans earlier videos for the first time the thing that stood out like dogs bollocks was the lack of athleticism (and natural talent). Even back then it was clear that he was going to be fighting an uphill battle.

Then there was the offers of help that he failed to take up (but I guess thats understandable given he had a clear vision in his mind how he wanted to approach this).

But yeah, its evident this was only going to end one way. You just can't do this kind of thing without some underlying natural ability and talent. I mean, have a look at something like X Factor when they play the back story of contestants.

More times than not the ones that excel are the ones with backstories where they excel at pretty much everything they do. Its almost as if people who are naturally talented have an inner voice that tells them to not waste time on things where they have little hope of success while those who are, for the want of better words, tragic don't have that little voice in their heads! :)

[golfdu]

I have this theory that it takes $100,000 to make it on Tour.

[nevets88]

Imho, how to make it on the professional golf circuit:

• A lot of talent
• A lot of perseverance
• A lot of money
• A lot of support - family, coaches, friends
• Some amount of luck

[Vinsk]

5 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Imho, how to make it on the professional golf circuit:

• A lot of talent
• A lot of perseverance
• A lot of money
• A lot of support - family, coaches, friends
• Some amount of luck

I agree. My cousin played on the PGA Tour back in the 80's. Guy was an awesome golfer. I watched his struggles and I feel for these guys...probably much more difficult today too. Just the stress involved in trying to play your best in a PGA tournament. And getting the money to travel and play in these tourneys, just a mess. He would get a sponsor every once in awhile, but that alone was stressful in that he knew he would want to pay them back (they were just personal loans from friends/family basically) so when he didn't make the cut...a deeper and deeper financial hole. He went to BYU and was Keith Clearwater's roommate (if you remember him). I think you're right for the vast majority of situations. Phenoms such as Tiger could probably have made it with talent alone...but that is rare.

[JetFan1983]

44 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Imho, how to make it on the professional golf circuit:

• A lot of talent
• A lot of perseverance
• A lot of money
• A lot of support - family, coaches, friends
• Some amount of luck

You forgot arguably the two most important ones:

1) starting as a small child

2) having an adult in your life who loves golf enough to take you with them to the range, course from a young age and encouraging your development in some meaningful way. I guess you covered this one though in "a lot of support," but still. 

[nevets88]

6 minutes ago, JetFan1983 said:

You forgot arguably the two most important ones:

1) starting as a small child

2) having an adult in your life who loves golf enough to take you with them to the range, course from a young age and encouraging your development in some meaningful way. I guess you covered this one though in "a lot of support," but still. 

Very true. I also left out an innate love of the game. You gotta love it because banging out all those balls can get old quick.

[JetFan1983]

11 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Very true. I also left out an innate love of the game. You gotta love it because banging all those balls can get boring quick.

Yea you either have a kid who loves it or you don't, but a clever parent IMO can convince some children on the fence about the game that it truly is worth it. Most parents are too stupid for that though.

Gotta start young tho. As the body grows and develops, it has to grow around the absurdity that is the golf swing. Take for example those crazy Kayan women who add metal rings to their necks in order to elongate them over time:

IMO, something similar occurs to the human body when golf is introduced and constantly nurtured during childhood. The body grows and adapts to it in ways someone who picks the game up at 35 will never, ever have. 

Critical. Critical towards learning because no one can grind at the range like a child's body can too. And as we know, being able to get up and play every day without pain is a critical component to improving. Starting young opens so many doors... and what about junior golf and all that? Learning how to compete against kids in your age group is another massive advantage. Junior golf, high school golf, college golf? Good luck picking this shit up at 30 and being able to hang with the thousands who have gone through those gauntlets and come out of them with a truckload of trophies behind them. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by JetFan1983

[krupa]

8 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Very true. I also left out an innate love of the game. You gotta love it because banging out all those balls can get old quick.

That's what I don't understand when I see that Ericsson was all excited about Dan's attempt.  His (Ericsson's) paper on deliberate practice even mentioned that:

Quote

From many interviews with international-level performers in several domains, Bloom (1985b) found that these individuals start out as children by engaging in playful activities in the domain. After some period of playful and enjoyable experience they reveal "talent" or promise. At this point parents typically suggest the start of instruction by a teacher and limited amounts of deliberate practice. The parents support their children in acquiring regular habits of practice and teach their children about the instrumental value of deliberate practice by noticing improvements in performance. With increased experience and deliberate practice, individuals' performance in the domain reflects an inseparable combination of practice and innate talent. We rely on Bloom's (198 5b) characterization of the period of preparation in three phases, which are illustrated in Figure 1.

 

[nevets88]

1 minute ago, JetFan1983 said:

Yea you either have a kid who loves it or you don't, but a clever parent IMO can convince some children on the fence about the game that it truly is worth it. Most parents are too stupid for that though.

Gotta start young tho. As the body grows and develops, it has to grow around the absurdity that is the golf swing. Take for example those crazy Kayan women who add metal rings to their necks in order to elongate them over time:

IMO, something similar occurs to the human body when golf is introduced and constantly nurtured during childhood. The body grows and adapts to it in ways someone who picks the game up at 35 will never, ever have. 

Critical. Critical towards learning because no one can grind at the range like a child's body can too. And as we know, being able to get up and play every day without pain is a critical component to improving. Starting young opens so many doors... and what about junior golf and all that? Learning how to compete against kids in your age group is another massive advantage. Junior golf, high school golf college golf? Good lucky picking this shit up at 30 and being able to hang with the thousands who have gone through those gauntlets and come out of them with a truckload of trophies behind them. 

Totally agree with you. My interest though is more not how to go pro at a late age, but how to get people taking up the game late playing at a higher level, like me of course and a lot of folks here. Not asking the impossible right? I'm just wondering if this is a puzzle to be cracked and can be cracked. It's crazy to ask someone older to go on tour, but how about the schlepp who wants to get the most out of his/her ability?

[JetFan1983]

Dan's a ****ing moron. And there is no clearer evidence in regards to how stupid Dan is than in his concluding statements. "I just don't know what to write."

Really? You're THAT obtuse, dude? You know exactly what to write, but you can't bring yourself to do it.

Oh, the conclusion isn't some lame ass participation trophy but rather a bulging disc in your back that you're gonna have for life? It's those thirty pounds you clearly put on over the last few years because you can't exercise or be active like you used to because of what golf did to your lower spine? It's that you didn't even have a snowballs chance in hell? And now you can't publish that stupid ass book you were going to publish with you on the cover wearing a turtleneck looking like a genius who was gonna tell anyone willing to buy your book that everyone's dreams are attainable?

What. A. Dick. 

I realize that was harsh what I just said, but hey, he won't conclude it, so I guess that means it's up to "reader's interpretation" what the ending means lol. 

 

3 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Totally agree with you. My interest though is more not how to go pro at a late age, but how to get people taking up the game late playing at a higher level, like me of course and a lot of folks here. Not asking the impossible right? I'm just wondering if this is a puzzle to be cracked and can be cracked. It's crazy to ask someone older to go on tour, but how about the schlepp who wants to get the most out of his/her ability?

In that case you NEED the following:

1) Strength and durability: You need to just never get injured. You're already behind the 8-ball with time, and you cannot afford to not be playing and practicing six days a week. This is not negotiable. 

2) Genetic talent: You need to reach a realization about how to swing a golf club on the downswing sooner rather than later. That crap where you "can't shallow the downswing EVER?" Yea, you need to be able to bust through that phase in months, not years. Larry Nelson picked up golf at 21 and won three majors in the 1980s. YE Yang started playing golf at 19, but was a body builder at the time. There ARE anomalies that exist in this game.

They certainly exist, but you really need the physical tools in order to do it. You need strength, durability and a natural born ability to figure out how to hit a golf ball faster than the average person. If you start as a child, I think a wider range of people can pick up the game and one day master it. But once you reach adulthood, that genetic pool dries significantly, and only those left who can learn it are the truly talented ones who didn't have an adult in their life to introduce it to them as kids. And if they got the game as kids? Yang would probably have 2-3 more majors than he does now IMO. But I could be wrong on that. 

[nevets88]

I agree. Observer's paradox among other things.

[mchepp]

On 8/18/2017 at 8:42 AM, JetFan1983 said:

Dan's a ****ing moron. And there is no clearer evidence in regards to how stupid Dan is than in his concluding statements. "I just don't know what to write."

Really? You're THAT obtuse, dude? You know exactly what to write, but you can't bring yourself to do it.

Oh, the conclusion isn't some lame ass participation trophy but rather a bulging disc in your back that you're gonna have for life? It's those thirty pounds you clearly put on over the last few years because you can't exercise or be active like you used to because of what golf did to your lower spine? It's that you didn't even have a snowballs chance in hell? And now you can't publish that stupid ass book you were going to publish with you on the cover wearing a turtleneck looking like a genius who was gonna tell anyone willing to buy your book that everyone's dreams are attainable?

What. A. Dick. 

I realize that was harsh what I just said, but hey, he won't conclude it, so I guess that means it's up to "reader's interpretation" what the ending means lol. 

I know I've said this a lot in this thread and the articles but Dan is not like most people in this regard.

For starters his passion for golf is not even in the same solar system as yours. While I think he likes the game and the friendships it forms, I don't think he has spent anywhere near the amount of time practicing and obsessing as you or any of us who frequent this forum. I have spoken to golfers who play 1/10 as much as he did when he was at his peak and they have more passion for the game than he does.

This lack of passion is why he went the route he did. I think I better understand his passion now, it was the academic part. He got a high from speaking to professors and watching them listen to him. My bet is prior to this a professor at a university wouldn't have given him the time of day. He got to travel around telling everyone about the Plan. Golf was simply a vehicle. This, in my opinion, is what has driven everyone here mad. I think it gets viewed as a lack of respect for the game that we are all so passionate about. In many ways it is. This cannot be said enough, Dan does not love golf. I doubt he could become a professional because the minute it got hard he would have quit.

I think once I accepted that he really didn't care about golf I took the approach of substituting golf for throwing darts in every blog post or article where it said golf that was written. It helps. It takes my passion out of it.

By not caring about golf like we do, I can see how he doesn't care about a conclusion. Because he didn't finish he cannot be seen by the academics as anything but an abandoned experiment. The part he was passionate about is gone. So there is no conclusion. And as I said long ago, there never will be.