The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Golfingdad]

That's a good point.  The average person that hears about Dan, probably doesn't care but also probably doesn't know much about golf.  When they hear that he's playing in "tournaments" after "only" 4500 hours of practice they might think it's a great achievement.

Great point.

I have to think that anyone who's seriously tried to get better at golf will side with us "naysayers" rather than be amazed at his accomplishment.  Some of the accomplishments of our own sandtrappers are more impressive than what Dan has done.

Hmmmmm, I think that would be close.  Let's be really hard on him and say that he, at best, is what??  A 10 handicap?  Can we at least give him that?  So, in the span of a couple of years, he goes from not ever having played golf to being a 10 handicap.  That's worth something.

Now I don't know all of the histories of the TST accomplishments, but I think somewhere right at the top would be @Stretch who, if I'm not mistaken went from some high handicap to something close to scratch in a similar time period?  Where did he start his journey?  High teens, low 20's?

Dan's not a TST'er so I guess I'd choose to agree with you and vote for Stretch there, but Dan has accomplished at least something . ;)

[newtogolf]

Great point.

Hmmmmm, I think that would be close.  Let's be really hard on him and say that he, at best, is what??  A 10 handicap?  Can we at least give him that?  So, in the span of a couple of years, he goes from not ever having played golf to being a 10 handicap.  That's worth something.

Now I don't know all of the histories of the TST accomplishments, but I think somewhere right at the top would be @Stretch who, if I'm not mistaken went from some high handicap to something close to scratch in a similar time period?  Where did he start his journey?  High teens, low 20's?

Dan's not a TST'er so I guess I'd choose to agree with you and vote for Stretch there, but Dan has accomplished at least something. ;)

I was thinking of Stretch and the member that chronicled his efforts from high capper to single digits in one year.  I couldn't find the link to get his username.

[Pretzel]

We know that he's about as good as a run of the mill high school freshman player, but does the rest of world believe his word or our word? Keep in mind that he has many people convinced that we are just a bunch of nay saying, jealous, evil golfers that took years to get where we are and he's done it in less than 4 years. According to him anyway. The saga continues. . .

Not trying to knock Dan too hard, but I went from a VERY generous 24 handicap to where I am now in the same timeframe that he's taken, while also passing (with a 3.8 GPA) all of my high school classes at the same time. He's done nothing but golf. I'm a little fed up with him right now, but I know if I pointed out how meager his accomplishments are he would just say, "Well, he's just a hater" or something to that effect.

I wonder if there's any way to get through to the guy that he's pretty much out of his gourd?

As for the marketing though, he's done well to keep it alive with only the income of donations for four years. He could probably put this on his resume after he's done ("Led on a bunch of strangers to live out my fantasy on their dime for 8 years") and get a PR or advertising gig at some company.

[Golfingdad]

I was thinking of Stretch and the member that chronicled his efforts from high capper to single digits in one year.  I couldn't find the link to get his username.

Oh yeah ... @johnclayton1982 ???

And @Pretzel too! (I just learned that 2 seconds ago, though)

[newtogolf]

Oh yeah ... @johnclayton1982 ???

And @Pretzel too!   (I just learned that 2 seconds ago, though)

That's the guy, thanks!

[Lihu]

I was thinking of Stretch and the member that chronicled his efforts from high capper to single digits in one year.  I couldn't find the link to get his username.

[quote name="newtogolf" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer/1656#post_1050052"]That's the guy, thanks! [/quote] Don't forget about http://thesandtrap.com/t/61175/a-new-golfers-journey-through-the-first-two-months-so-far @bjwestner

[Golfingdad]

That's the guy, thanks!

Here's his thread: http://thesandtrap.com/t/49746/post-mortem-130-to-88-in-6-months-what-worked-what-did-not/0_30

[nevets88]

Dan Plan doesn't subsist entirely on donations and income from website, ebook and branded products. He's digging into his savings too. He saved about I forget, but a substantial amount of money to withdraw from. While I could learn a thing or two about marketing from him, he just naturally comes across as a positive, non threatening guy and that's pretty much all you need to do. He didn't seem very charismatic on the talk show, more soft spoken. Most of his followers don't really know that much about golf, based on comments I see in social media, even the ones who play it. It least instruction, deliberate practice wise. Now that's a biased opinion as I'm a bit of an instruction geek. That's what gets me a little. So instead of branching out for new ways to get better, they're just following Dan Plan who just seems to be doing run of the mill stuff to get better other than the putting, chipping only thing. But they're enjoying the ride so who am I to judge? I guess I keep coming back to this thread and others because I rue the lost opportunity to spread better info around. 4 years into his goal and he learns what dynamic loft is just now? I never held him to the PGA Tour goal that's just loco, I accept that's just a way to get eyeballs or naïveté or both.

[RandallT]

http://thedanplan.com/repetitive-learning-traps/

Dan Quote:

To me it felt like I was so far away from my current gamer swing that I didn’t even know if I would be able to hit the ball.  But alas, the picture tells a different, and more accurate, story.

The moral of the story?  No matter how much you might think you are changing something make sure you get appropriate feedback as golf-specific proprioception tends to be misleading without a good visual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88


Most of his followers don't really know that much about golf, based on comments I see in social media, even the ones who play it. It least instruction, deliberate practice wise. Now that's a biased opinion as I'm a bit of an instruction geek. That's what gets me a little. So instead of branching out for new ways to get better, they're just following Dan Plan who just seems to be doing run of the mill stuff to get better other than the putting, chipping only thing. But they're enjoying the ride so who am I to judge?

I guess I keep coming back to this thread and others because I rue the lost opportunity to spread better info around. 4 years into his goal and he learns what dynamic loft is just now? I never held him to the PGA Tour goal that's just loco, I accept that's just a way to get eyeballs or naïveté or both.

Well, he just posted a blog that ACTUALLY discusses the learning process- see the link just below the pic above. His first swing above on the left is his current swing. The other three to the right are (according to him) exaggerated swings to try to do different things- each of the 3 different feels from each other. He writes that they all look very similar, despite being different feels, although the one on the left (his current tourney swing) is definitely flatter. TST could've saved him time learning that "feel ain't real." That seems to be his big insight in the blog post. But read the whole thing, if you wanna see other comments he has about learning/unlearning/relearning. Not a lot of meat, but since we've been harping on him to include SOMETHING about learning, we have to admit that it's something.

[nevets88]

[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/105250/] [/URL] [URL=http://thedanplan.com/repetitive-learning-traps/]http://thedanplan.com/repetitive-learning-traps/[/URL] Well, he just posted a blog that ACTUALLY discusses the learning process- see the link just below the pic above. His first swing above on the left is his current swing. The other three to the right are (according to him) exaggerated swings to try to do different things- each of the 3 different feels from each other. He writes that they all look very similar, despite being different feels, although the one on the left (his current tourney swing) is definitely flatter. TST could've saved him time learning that "feel ain't real." That seems to be his big insight in the blog post. But read the whole thing, if you wanna see other comments he has about learning/unlearning/relearning. Not a lot of meat, but since we've been harping on him to include SOMETHING about learning, we have to admit that it's something.

Hopefully this will be a big help. Perhaps he should spring for a high fps P&S.; The iPhone is pretty good, but P&S; makes things easier. I wonder why it took so long for him to get this? An instructor should have beat it down on him to use the camera this way. At least the ones I worked with did and I was initially resistant.

[iacas]

I wonder why it took so long for him to get this?

Good question…

P.S. I don't know who Richard Chen is, but he doesn't appear to know very much about the golf swing. I only read the first two paragraphs of his novel in the comments, though.

[Lihu]

Good question…

P.S. I don't know who Richard Chen is, but he doesn't appear to know very much about the golf swing. I only read the first two paragraphs of his novel in the comments, though.

You mean this?

"Stance distance from the ball basically determines whether the swing plane is flat or upright.

By using the rear foot as a measuring stick, the ball is teed about 3 foot lengths from the stance. By comparison, in Woods book, the ball is teed about 2 1/2 foot lengths from the stance."

After reading these two paragraphs, I was seriously wondering if I should spend any more time reading the rest of it or not.

[Pretzel]

You mean this?

"Stance distance from the ball basically determines whether the swing plane is flat or upright.

By using the rear foot as a measuring stick, the ball is teed about 3 foot lengths from the stance. By comparison, in Woods book, the ball is teed about 2 1/2 foot lengths from the stance."

After reading these two paragraphs, I was seriously wondering if I should spend any more time reading the rest of it or not.

I wonder what happens if you use the front foot as a measuring stick. How many foot lengths is it then?

I would say that it might be detrimental to your golf swing to read further. I also have read Tiger Woods' golf book, and it says nothing about standing 2 1/2 foot lengths from the ball.

[k14]

P.S. I don't know who Richard Chen is, but he doesn't appear to know very much about the golf swing. I only read the first two paragraphs of his novel in the comments, though.

I was thinking the same thing. He regularly posts comments and on more than one occasion they are longer than the blog post itself.

[nevets88]

Holy dear lord wall of China text. Anytime I see that many words, my reaction is Gandalf's "Run, you fools." This is the thing about being public. You're accosted on all sides with advice. How the hell do you choose, as a newbie? When you take up golf, having a knowledgeable mentor, makes such a difference.

[iacas]

Holy dear lord wall of China text. Anytime I see that many words, my reaction is Gandalf's "Run, you fools."

This is the thing about being public. You're accosted on all sides with advice. How the hell do you choose, as a newbie? When you take up golf, having a knowledgeable mentor, makes such a difference.

I do wish someone would tell him about Lowest Score Wins . I think it'd open his eyes to lots of things.

[pullfade]

The flat swing is maddening. I met Dan 3 years ago as he was always hanging around my local course in Portland. He took an interest in me as I'm a fairly accomplished player for the area. Played in the Pac-12, bounced around on the mini-tours for awhile until eventually regaining my amateur status and now I enjoy playing in usga, regional, and state amateur events.

In an ideal world he would have an accomplished instructor working with him daily but he doesn't have the resources and can't find an instructor willing to give him that amount of time for what Dan can afford to pay. I've filled in as an interim instructor for Dan at times. I worked with him about 6 months ago on trying to get him to have a less handsy takeaway, a full shoulder turn, a more upright plane, more natural axis tilt at impact, working on his early extension, etc.

The problem is he's just your typical stubborn student. He's learned to swing the club one way that has got him down to a 7-8 handicap mostly on his own. If he's really serious about changing his swing and becoming an overall better ballstriker, and I've told him this, he needs to not play golf for 6 months or a year and commit to making the changes on the range. I can get him in better positions when I'm working with him which leads to more solid contact but the moment I leave it all goes back to these pathetic pictures of his swing being even more flat than before. I think a lot of that is caused by the fact that he feels like he has to play in tournaments and has to go out there with some sort of swing he's comfortable with that can put up a reasonable score. I understand that completely but with his aptitude for the game and his average (at best) athletic ability, it's my opinion that the only way his swing will improve is if he stops playing golf and beats balls on the range with supervision for the next 6 months.

[Ernest Jones]

The flat swing is maddening. I met Dan 3 years ago as he was always hanging around my local course in Portland. He took an interest in me as I'm a fairly accomplished player for the area. Played in the Pac-12, bounced around on the mini-tours for awhile until eventually regaining my amateur status and now I enjoy playing in usga, regional, and state amateur events.

In an ideal world he would have an accomplished instructor working with him daily but he doesn't have the resources and can't find an instructor willing to give him that amount of time for what Dan can afford to pay. I've filled in as an interim instructor for Dan at times. I worked with him about 6 months ago on trying to get him to have a less handsy takeaway, a full shoulder turn, a more upright plane, more natural axis tilt at impact, working on his early extension, etc.

The problem is he's just your typical stubborn student. He's learned to swing the club one way that has got him down to a 7-8 handicap mostly on his own. If he's really serious about changing his swing and becoming an overall better ballstriker, and I've told him this, he needs to not play golf for 6 months or a year and commit to making the changes on the range. I can get him in better positions when I'm working with him which leads to more solid contact but the moment I leave it all goes back to these pathetic pictures of his swing being even more flat than before. I think a lot of that is caused by the fact that he feels like he has to play in tournaments and has to go out there with some sort of swing he's comfortable with that can put up a reasonable score. I understand that completely but with his aptitude for the game, his average at best athletic ability, it's my opinion that the only way his swing will improve is if he stops playing golf and beats balls on the range with supervision for the next 6 months.

Ugh. If any teacher told me I had to quite playing golf for 6 months to improve...well...let's just say I'd look for another coach. Maybe that's just me but I can't see why a player can't steadily improve without having to quit playing and rebuild from zero. In fact, I think it's notions like these that keep so many people from seeking any instruction at all.