Do You Support the PGA's "Tee It Forward" Effort?

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Agreed, but you are a 10 handicap not a high handicap.

Even though you have more distance in CO off line still puts you off line, and unless your courses are 10% wider at all points it will still land you in the rough or trouble. Higher handicaps should still play the more forward tees no matter how far they hit it. Unless one hits it straighter, there is no reason to be on the longer tees.

How about because they enjoy it more?  Isnt golf supposed to be a fun activity that you do in your free time and spend your hard earned money on?  I totally agree that if you are holding people up because it takes you 3 or 4 strokes to get anywhere near the green on an average length par 4 than you need to move up or let people play through but to say that there is no reason for a high capper to play a longer/tougher course kinda misses the whole point of the game (just IMO--nothing against you personally).  Playing a shorter course where you only need the driver or 3W once or twice can be fun and challenging in its own way but i still enjoy the challenge of a course that makes me hit every club in my bag to score well.

This is only a legitimate concern if their fun doesn't impinge on anyone else's fun.  Meaning that my group isn't waiting on Joe Hacker in front of me as he constantly searches the weeds and woods all day long for his ball because he has no control from the back tees with his driver.

There is more to consider than just your fun.  I have no idea why anyone would call that fun in the first place.

[Lihu]

How about because they enjoy it more?  Isnt golf supposed to be a fun activity that you do in your free time and spend your hard earned money on?  I totally agree that if you are holding people up because it takes you 3 or 4 strokes to get anywhere near the green on an average length par 4 than you need to move up or let people play through but to say that there is no reason for a high capper to play a longer/tougher course kinda misses the whole point of the game (just IMO--nothing against you personally).  Playing a shorter course where you only need the driver or 3W once or twice can be fun and challenging in its own way but i still enjoy the challenge of a course that makes me hit every club in my bag to score well.

You can enjoy golf more by being nearer the hole off the tee. I believe that's the idea behind the game of golf.

[InTheRough]

You can enjoy golf more by being nearer the hole off the tee. I believe that's the idea behind the game of golf.

Absolutely.  but you can also get bored of only ever hitting irons or hybrids off of the tee.  Like i said before...i am in 100% agreement that if you are holding other people up on the course because you are playing too far back then move the heck up or let people play through but i think the whole TIF program leads to some players (both good and bad players) bullying into playing the game how the other players want other than what is fun for them

[Pretzel]

Absolutely.  but you can also get bored of only ever hitting irons or hybrids off of the tee.  Like i said before...i am in 100% agreement that if you are holding other people up on the course because you are playing too far back then move the heck up or let people play through but i think the whole TIF program leads to some players (both good and bad players) bullying into playing the game how the other players want other than what is fun for them

Why are you only hitting irons and hybrids off the tee? Are you reaching the green on par 4's with those irons and hybrids? If not, you're leaving strokes on the table that you could be gained by hitting a 3-w or driver provided that you don't dunk it in a hazard when you do that.

Think about it this way: If you had the choice, would you move your ball from a spot in the rough near the green (think within 20 yards, easy pitch distance or a nGIR) back to around 75-100 yards in the fairway? I know I sure wouldn't.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

Why are you only hitting irons and hybrids off the tee? Are you reaching the green on par 4's with those irons and hybrids? If not, you're leaving strokes on the table that you could be gained by hitting a 3-w or driver provided that you don't dunk it in a hazard when you do that. Think about it this way: If you had the choice, would you move your ball from a spot in the rough near the green (think within 20 yards, easy pitch distance or a nGIR) back to around 75-100 yards in the fairway? I know I sure wouldn't.

I'll take a full shot with a PW over a half shot with a SW every hole, any day of the week but maybe that's just me. Plus I like to use 6/5 irons and my new to me hybrids and 3/5 woods sometimes that's why I bought them after all. And what sucks worse than that is short courses in the 6000 range with lots of water where you have to hit other clubs off the box on more par 4/5s than a driver. I hate that.

[InTheRough]

I'll take a full shot with a PW over a half shot with a SW every hole, any day of the week but maybe that's just me. Plus I like to use 6/5 irons and my new to me hybrids and 3/5 woods sometimes that's why I bought them after all. And what sucks worse than that is short courses in the 6000 range with lots of water where you have to hit other clubs off the box on more par 4/5s than a driver. I hate that.

Couldn't agree more.

Why are you only hitting irons and hybrids off the tee? Are you reaching the green on par 4's with those irons and hybrids? If not, you're leaving strokes on the table that you could be gained by hitting a 3-w or driver provided that you don't dunk it in a hazard when you do that.

Think about it this way: If you had the choice, would you move your ball from a spot in the rough near the green (think within 20 yards, easy pitch distance or a nGIR) back to around 75-100 yards in the fairway? I know I sure wouldn't.

Isnt that the whole point of the tee it forward program?  At least what i have read about it suggests that it was created to help put people in a situation where they dont hit driver or 3W on most par 4s and instead are able to hit irons and hybrids into the fairway and (hopefully) score better.

[Lihu]

Isnt that the whole point of the tee it forward program?  At least what i have read about it suggests that it was created to help put people in a situation where they dont hit driver or 3W on most par 4s and instead are able to hit irons and hybrids into the fairway and (hopefully) score better.

Not from my experience.

The only times I need to use something other than driver off a par 4 tee is if there is an extreme dogleg with water or other hazards on both sides.

Usually the longer tees put more trouble in the way of the fairway. This would actually mean you would need to hit something other than driver, because there are usually more obstacles. Unless you're long enough with these other clubs, it would probably cost you more strokes.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo

I'll take a full shot with a PW over a half shot with a SW every hole, any day of the week but maybe that's just me. Plus I like to use 6/5 irons and my new to me hybrids and 3/5 woods sometimes that's why I bought them after all. And what sucks worse than that is short courses in the 6000 range with lots of water where you have to hit other clubs off the box on more par 4/5s than a driver. I hate that.

Couldn't agree more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretzel

Why are you only hitting irons and hybrids off the tee? Are you reaching the green on par 4's with those irons and hybrids? If not, you're leaving strokes on the table that you could be gained by hitting a 3-w or driver provided that you don't dunk it in a hazard when you do that.

Think about it this way: If you had the choice, would you move your ball from a spot in the rough near the green (think within 20 yards, easy pitch distance or a nGIR) back to around 75-100 yards in the fairway? I know I sure wouldn't.

Isnt that the whole point of the tee it forward program?  At least what i have read about it suggests that it was created to help put people in a situation where they dont hit driver or 3W on most par 4s and instead are able to hit irons and hybrids into the fairway and (hopefully) score better.

Of course it is.  The point is that you can play at a better pace by keeping the ball in play.  And it really is more fun.  Why is it boring to score better?  To keep the ball in play and play under control?  Nobody is saying that anyone has to move forward and stay there the rest of their lives, only that it's going to be more fun for everyone around you if you dial it back until you get the long sticks under some semblance of control.  What's fun about hitting 270 yards, but 40 yards off the fairway?  Saying that it's more fun to shoot higher scores is nothing more than ignoring reason and surrendering to your ego.

[Pretzel]

I'll take a full shot with a PW over a half shot with a SW every hole, any day of the week but maybe that's just me. Plus I like to use 6/5 irons and my new to me hybrids and 3/5 woods sometimes that's why I bought them after all. And what sucks worse than that is short courses in the 6000 range with lots of water where you have to hit other clubs off the box on more par 4/5s than a driver. I hate that.

And you'll be costing yourself shots every hole, any day of the week so long as you use that strategy. I guarantee you hit more greens with a half sand wedge than a full pitching wedge unless you have never practiced a half sand wedge shot before, and even then it's likely you'll get the ball on the green more often. Being 20 yards closer to the hole on your tee shot is a benefit to golfers of all skill levels, more so than being more accurate. You have to become a PGA tour player before a 1* increase in accuracy off the tee will have the same benefit as 20 extra yards. It's just because the closer you are to the hole, the more likely you are to hit the green. Anyways, that's a bit off-topic for this, but the point of the Tee It Forward program is to give you those extra 20 yards off the tee by changing the tee you hit from. This means the average 90's shooter will save (on average) around 3 or more strokes per round compared to the usual tees. If shooting lower scores isn't more fun, I'm not sure what is. It does give you the option of hitting a shorter club to the same spot off the tee as where you normally go (with greater accuracy) but it will not benefit your scores as much as being 20 yards closer.

[iacas]

I'll take a full shot with a PW over a half shot with a SW every hole, any day of the week but maybe that's just me.

And I'll take a bet on someone with your same ability level from closer to the hole, every time. Read the #DeadCenter chapter in Lowest Score Wins. That's what @Pretzel is talking about…

But I agree it's somewhat off topic here.

[colin007]

Obviously, with a little dirt, seed, and creativity, they could create a lovely yellow tee set at around 5900, and they would likely greatly increase their senior play.  But a lack of foresight keeps this from happening.

im sorry, but seniors shouldnt be playing from 5900 yards.  seriously.  i see seniors paying from 5400 yard tees and theyre still pulling driver on a 130 yard par 3.

[ghalfaire]

im sorry, but seniors shouldnt be playing from 5900 yards.  seriously.  i see seniors paying from 5400 yard tees and theyre still pulling driver on a 130 yard par 3.

Probably a little off topic but I always cringe when someone says all, none, always, never, and paints a group, in this case seniors (whoever that is), with the same brush.  Seniors are no more a homogeneous group than any other.  While they may share some characteristics, chronological age over some number, many can still play the game from the tips and outscore  a lot of younger folks I see playing from the tips.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divot Master

Obviously, with a little dirt, seed, and creativity, they could create a lovely yellow tee set at around 5900, and they would likely greatly increase their senior play.  But a lack of foresight keeps this from happening.

im sorry, but seniors shouldnt be playing from 5900 yards.  seriously.  i see seniors paying from 5400 yard tees and theyre still pulling driver on a 130 yard par 3.

I'm a senior (67) and I play from 6500 yards, the same middle tees I've played for 30 years.

[colin007]

Probably a little off topic but I always cringe when someone says all, none, always, never, and paints a group, in this case seniors (whoever that is), with the same brush.  Seniors are no more a homogeneous group than any other.  While they may share some characteristics, chronological age over some number, many can still play the game from the tips and outscore  a lot of younger folks I see playing from the tips.

I'm a senior (67) and I play from 6500 yards, the same middle tees I've played for 30 years.

you guys are right.  i apologize.  i am referring to the seniors that i see that get the handicap flag strapped to the roof of the cart that allows them to drive onto the fringe of the green.  they look like these guys.

[Lihu]

im sorry, but seniors shouldnt be playing from 5900 yards.  seriously.  i see seniors paying from 5400 yard tees and theyre still pulling driver on a 130 yard par 3.

I've never seen a senior play from the wrong tees before.

@ghalfaire , yes, "never".

[isukgolf]

So I have been following this thread and even posted a couple of times … I play as close as I can (I am the average 220'ish guy) … but I am confused, when I look at it logically (well my warp definition of logic)

I know there are some good weekend golfers that hit it far and accurately … I personal don’t play with those guys, nor have I ever been paired with them when I walk on … typically I golf with, and have been paired with guys that do occasionally “get a hold” of one and it goes 270 to maybe 300’ishyards … but actually those shots are rare, they are more in the 240-260 range most of the day, if they are actually on the fairway at all …

But if I told them, they could add 20-30 yards off the tee with their current set up … nothing changes with their swing, club, or ball … I think every one of them would take me up on my offer … until I pointed to tee box in front of them … then somehow those 20-30 yards are not as valuable, not as “fun or challenging” or even somehow cheapen the achievement regardless of their score at the end of the day ...

But like I stated before, play any tee box you want, I personally don’t care …  Only you can make the decision of what defines a fun and challenging round, and I wish nothing but the best in that endeavor ...

[Lihu]

So I have been following this thread and even posted a couple of times … I play as close as I can (I am the average 220'ish guy) … but I am confused, when I look at it logically (well my warp definition of logic)

I know there are some good weekend golfers that hit it far and accurately … I personal don’t play with those guys, nor have I ever been paired with them when I walk on … typically I golf with, and have been paired with guys that do occasionally “get a hold” of one and it goes 270 to maybe 300’ishyards … but actually those shots are rare, they are more in the 240-260 range most of the day, if they are actually on the fairway at all …

But if I told them, they could add 20-30 yards off the tee with their current set up … nothing changes with their swing, club, or ball … I think every one of them would take me up on my offer … until I pointed to tee box in front of them … then somehow those 20-30 yards are not as valuable, not as “fun or challenging” or even somehow cheapen the achievement regardless of their score at the end of the day ...

But like I stated before, play any tee box you want, I personally don’t care …  Only you can make the decision of what defines a fun and challenging round, and I wish nothing but the best in that endeavor ...

These driving distances are okay to play 6200-6400 yards. That is USGA "teed forward" already.

Here is the table again, for reference:

http://www.pga.com/pga-and-usga-step-new-sets-tees-in-nationwide-tee-it-forward-initiative

I play these tees as well, sometimes as much as 6700 for fun.

[Dave2512]

How about because they enjoy it more?  Isnt golf supposed to be a fun activity that you do in your free time and spend your hard earned money on?  I totally agree that if you are holding people up because it takes you 3 or 4 strokes to get anywhere near the green on an average length par 4 than you need to move up or let people play through but to say that there is no reason for a high capper to play a longer/tougher course kinda misses the whole point of the game (just IMO--nothing against you personally).  Playing a shorter course where you only need the driver or 3W once or twice can be fun and challenging in its own way but i still enjoy the challenge of a course that makes me hit every club in my bag to score well.

Thing is high handicap golfers, even those that occasionally hit it far, lack consistency. Their mishits are just as often short as left to right. Playing up isn't going to magically make them start playing precision golf tee to green. I see people chunking wedges from 50 yards all the time. You can put a poor golfer right next to the green and they will hit bad shots, it is what it is. The argument people can play bad golf and still play fast is full of holes. It's not the time spent making more strokes it's the time spent chasing balls around the course that makes high handicap golfers slower.