Lob or cut lob shots.... Many contradictions from pros on how to hit them

[Lizzyboy]

I want to learn to hit a 10-20 yard shot that will go high

and land on the green with very little roll.

I'm told a  lob or cut lob  is that type of shot.

Dave Pelz and Mickelson say almost the same thing:

Open the club face wide

open stance

play ball middle of stance

Mickelson (on his dvd) says to swing down the target line

and Pelz, in his bible book) says to swing down the stance line.

Very different.

Last month in Golf Digest, Rickie Fowler said

to play the ball off the left foot with a square stance and slightly open club.

This month, Luke Donald says "to get more height on your pitch shots",

play the ball off the left foot and open the club.

Dave Pelz  says you should always play the ball in the center of stance for all wedge shots, never forward!

Am I missing something here?

[Kieran123]

I play it like this:

Club face square to target, stance open to target, swing across my stance

Works for me, whether it's right or not, who knows.

[Lizzyboy]

Where do you play the ball?

[Mr. Desmond]

Go out there and see what works for you. If you play the ball forward, make sure you keep your weight forward during the entire swing or you might blade the ball.

Normally, I will do the Phil - narrow stance, ball in middle, open face, club square to target and go down target line

If you want to get it really high, do what Phil does - play it open and get the handle of the club lower than normal - experiment with how much open and handle down because that shot goes only 10 yards sometimes for me.

[mdl]

I've experimented with Mickelson, Pelz, and a slightly different method.  The thing is, if you contact the ball with an open face, then it's going to go right of your target line.  For me, that's led me to try the following three methods:

1) Club face square to target but tilted back to increase loft.  Basically if you line up with a normal stance, keep the front line of the club face square to target but push the handle back and towards your back knee.  This increases the loft to lob level.  Then line up your stance square with the new handle line, so open to the target, but your hands will be lower than normal.  Then address the ball in the middle of your stance and swing along your stance line.  This creates a cut lob.  Generally you're not hitting it far enough and you're hitting with so much loft that you won't get huge fade in the air, but it will be spinning to the right a lot, so the shot will release right on the green.

Both (2) and (3) play with an open club face at impact.  For me, the only way I've figured out how to get this to go straight is basically to have the heel of the club lower than the toe.  Play with it and think about the geometry and you can set it up so that basically even though the club face is open, the heel is lower exactly enough to make the actual angle of the face pointing to the target, though with the grooves open to the target and increased loft.  Then address with an open stance and ball about in the middle of the stance.  Then swing either:

2) Down the stance line

3) Down the target

Notice you can only hit any of these shots when you've got some space under the ball.  (2) of (3) are possible from not too tight fairway, but there's a fairly high risk of skulling it if you don't hit it just right.

I personally use (3), though I believe (never videoed, so don't know for sure), that really I'm still swinging out to in a bit relative to the target line, I'm just definitely swinging in to out relative to my stance line, and going for the feeling of swinging the club head square to the target line.

I have no idea if this is correct, but it's what I experimented with and ended up with.

I've also heard of the ball forward in stance with club open a bit, but unless you drive the heel of the club down a bit, this shot is going to go right.  Also, the ball forward method has always been very inconsistent for me.  To me it basically feels like you're trying to get extra height by basically flipping the club, and I've never been able to do that with any consistency.  I suppose the idea is that even with little pitches you're trying to hit the ball with hands in front of the club somewhat, so putting the ball way forward maybe should mean you can hit with similar feel but the hands will almost automatically be maybe just even with the ball instead of in front.  But I only play the lob when I need the ball to go over a bunker where I'm short sided and I need the ball to land almost vertical and not roll at all, or if I've stuck myself behind a tall shrub or short tree where I need the ball to go super super high, and the ball forward version for me only accomplishes maybe hitting the ball with full 60˚ loft, instead of maybe 55˚ loft I might get with hands in front, and to go super super high and land almost vertical I need to dramatically increase loft, not just use all of what the club has naturally.

[saevel25]

I have found i like to play the ball anywere from my front foot to back foot, but i never play the ball outside my foot, its always form inside to inside.

For the 10-20 yard high shot, i tend to play it like this, Off the front foot, with a slightly open clubface. When i do is i use a ton of body rotation and really keep the clubface low through the shot. I can slide the club under the ball that way. all my weight is on my front foot, and i pivot round my left leg.

[michaeljames92]

Look at most pros, and most of them flip to some degree. This makes it quite timing dependent and lots of practice is needed to do it perfectly. I think it helps if you have a lot of bounce, its really easy to chunk it if you have a small amount, especially on soft fairways.

[Paradox]

flop shot..handle lower than normal, shaft leaning back from normal just slightly, face open and stance open equally. ball forward about one ball/one and half ball widths.  Swing on my body line and flop it goes.  Thats my method and I can hit it off tight lies, from the rough and from the fairway.  Of course, I'm not a pro so I screw up from time to time but a flop shot is never high percentage so...I roll with it.

[rustyredcab]

Normal flop setup for me:

feet open 10-25* -- not 45* which is my tendency that I try to avoid

shoulders match feet -- maybe a little less open

face open to target line -- grip of the club changes to open face so that hands still line up as if hitting down foot line

hands a little lower

swing down foot-line

short backswing and big follow-through

BTW, this is a shot I try when no better option exists. I'd rather putt, chip, or pitch.

[TN94z]

In my opinion, I would give each way a try.  It all really depends on where you feel comfortable with ball placement and what not.  I have tried a few different ways and the way I do it is basically just move it up a bit in my stance and open the club face a bit.  I don't take the big full swing that Phil does.  I basically just use my normal swing with the above modifications.  I usually have a slightly opened stance and swing down that line.  To be honest, I don't use it that much.

I used to hit the big full swing flop kind of like Phil, but, IMO, it just wasn't as consistent for me as the way I do it now.

[mvmac]

Gotta utilize the bounce.

[jsb990]

Seems like one of those things that works differently for different swings. Try doing it yourself and see what works for you

[Zeph]

In theory, it doesn't matter where you put the ball. It all comes down to timing and sequence. The idea is to slide the clubhead underneath the ball. Opening the clubface adds loft, which obviously will send the ball higher. That doesn't mean you can't hit a lob shot with a square clubface, the ball will just go a little lower. Opening the clubface also add a bit more bounce. Watch the videos and read the material of what this shot is about, then go practice it. From a fluffy enough lie, you can hit a lob shot with a 3 iron. The two most common errors is to hit it fat or skull it. The first is caused by the leading edge digging into the ground, caused by too much forward shaft lean. The latter is caused by too little shaft lean, or hitting the ground too far behind the ball. How much the shaft leans depends on the bounce of your club. If you got 12º bounce, leaning the club 12º forward and farther will bring the leading edge into play. If you open the clubface, you can lean it more forward. It is pretty much a small flipping action, or letting the club catch up with the hands while you turn through. You want to the hit the ground first, not the ball.

[GaijinGolfer]

Personally, for the lob shot I go with an open stance, 70% of my weight on my front foot, ball slightly forward in my stance, aiming left of my target and the clubface opened to that it points to the target in my setup.  The more I open the face, the more I aim left because the ball is going to go where the clubface is pointing.

If Im really opening the face I will often aim so far left that my feet are on a line that is a 60 degree angle to my target.

Just as with any other shot, theres more than 1 way to do it and there really is no wrong way as long as it gets you the desired result.