Hank Haney's Book "The Big Miss" about his time teaching Tiger

[jhwmusic]

If it is possible to get "Served" on thesandtrap.com, RichF...Iacas just did his version of the "Pop and Lock" all over you!   Ooohhhh damn!

Good use of the Quote, Iacas....that would take me a month to do all of that.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichF

And why would Haney write anything scandalous...didn't he leave Tiger? (not the other way round?)

Of course, releasing it a week before The Masters is down to the publishers, not Haney..and why everyone is slagging Haney, calling his 'classless' for releasing this book before they've read anything in it, is pretty funny.

If you think Tiger didn't fire Hank, then you must also think everyone who resigned from a job at the White House was actually resigning of their own decision, too. Hank was fired - Tiger wasn't returning calls or texts, was knowingly shopping for a new instructor, was not working with Hank, etc. He was fired.

We have seen excerpts from the book, but even if we hadn't, it's still possible to say it's "classless" to share private conversations and interactions held by someone who had you over for dinner, who called you a friend, who allowed you to sleep in his home, etc. Hank made plenty of money off Tiger's fame, and this is little more than another cash grab.

And again, I'll say: I've got about a thousand better ways to spend my time than reading this, particularly since if the best parts of the book (like a movie trailer) are out already, the book will be booooooring.

Ain't that a nice way to treat a "friend" - fire him through the grapevine.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

What if the only things he said about Tiger were the excerpts and the rest of the book was about Charles Barkley and Ray Romano?!?

I don't see the point in discussing something that we already know is not true.

I didn't quote him, but I was responding to the guy pondering Tiger using "Pure" grips. Is there any point discussing Tiger switching to Pure grips?

[Harmonious]

It's all about control.  Woods (and his handlers/spin doctors) wants final approval of absolutely everything that is said, written, or thought about him. Always has. Evidently Haney didn't have to submit his manuscript for to Woods for approval.

Quite amusing to hear all the Haney hating based on a couple of excerpts.  I would suggest that folks wait until the full book comes out.  Who knows, it might be good. For sure, it will be interesting.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

It's all about control.  Woods (and his handlers/spin doctors) wants final approval of absolutely everything that is said, written, or thought about him. Always has. Evidently Haney didn't have to submit his manuscript for to Woods for approval.

Quite amusing to hear all the Haney hating based on a couple of excerpts.  I would suggest that folks wait until the full book comes out.  Who knows, it might be good. For sure, it will be interesting.

I see both sides. Neither Woods nor Haney have (or will have when all is said and done) treated the other with the utmost respect, but the book still doesn't sit well with me as an outider. Why not tell some anecdotes about golf and his students then throw a few extra in there about Tiger? Sure it would be similar Rotella's books, but then at least there'd be some acceptance of not running it past Tiger.

Look at Johnny Miller's book a few years ago. He alluded to some things that he knew about his fellow players and probably could really have dished the dirt, but he has to work with these guys. Is that why Haney is claiming to not be interested in working with professionals any more? Because he knows this book will effectively burn that bridge? Sorry if that's already been addressed in this thread - like anyone is going to read every single word.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Ain't that a nice way to treat a "friend" - fire him through the grapevine.

I'd agree, but who knows how it all really went down? And even if Tiger was the worst you could imagine in handling that, it doesn't change the fact that two wrongs don't make a right and Hank still could have not published a book.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Is there any point discussing Tiger switching to Pure grips?

Nope. But this thread's about Hank (and the book).

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Quite amusing to hear all the Haney hating based on a couple of excerpts.  I would suggest that folks wait until the full book comes out.  Who knows, it might be good. For sure, it will be interesting.

I suppose for me it's simply a matter of this: whether it's "good" or "interesting" doesn't change the fact that it's a book written about private and one would imagine confidential discussions between two guys who were, at the time, "friends." I think publishing a book like that is kind of skeevy.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I see both sides. Neither Woods nor Haney have (or will have when all is said and done) treated the other with the utmost respect, but the book still doesn't sit well with me as an outider. Why not tell some anecdotes about golf and his students then throw a few extra in there about Tiger? Sure it would be similar Rotella's books, but then at least there'd be some acceptance of not running it past Tiger.

Look at Johnny Miller's book a few years ago. He alluded to some things that he knew about his fellow players and probably could really have dished the dirt, but he has to work with these guys. Is that why Haney is claiming to not be interested in working with professionals any more? Because he knows this book will effectively burn that bridge? Sorry if that's already been addressed in this thread - like anyone is going to read every single word.

Good points.

It's mild speculation but I think Haney's at a point now where he simply doesn't enjoy being out on Tour or being at anyone's beck and call. Heck, he even got sued for not showing up at his own academies, recently, didn't he?

Even if that's not true, I think you're right that this book will have burned any bridges there. He simply may not care about that. He's been saying for a few years he's done teaching Tour pros.

[newtogolf]

Based on the exerpts I've read it appears the book is golfs equivilent of The Globe, TMZ or National Enquirer.  I don't hate Haney, but I did lose a lot of respect for him (I'm sure he cares).   I understand he didn't have a confidentiality / non disclosure agreement but the fact he'd go off and write a book about Tiger without Tigers knowledge or approval is a complete betrayal of trust.  I think Haney was pissed that Tiger dumped him for Foley and decided to cash in on Tigers name since Haney has already decided he likely won't coach pro golfers any longer.

Haney's contempt for Tiger is further shown in the books release date.  I realize it's possible the book company set the release date but if Haney wanted to do the right thing he'd have released it earlier or waited until after the Masters so it wouldn't be such a distraction for Tiger.

Originally Posted by Harmonious

It's all about control.  Woods (and his handlers/spin doctors) wants final approval of absolutely everything that is said, written, or thought about him. Always has. Evidently Haney didn't have to submit his manuscript for to Woods for approval.

Quite amusing to hear all the Haney hating based on a couple of excerpts.  I would suggest that folks wait until the full book comes out.  Who knows, it might be good. For sure, it will be interesting.

[RichF]

Why is it necessary to criticize Woods for something Haney is doing? Or does your dislike or hatred for Tiger Woods overflow so much that you have to find a way to criticize Woods for everything that has even a little to do with him? Vilification is too strong a word, in my book, but hey, whatever floats your boat buddy.

But here we go again, just because I'm posting something objectively, and it doesn't fit in with what little world the fanboys (you excluded, as per pas debate) want to hear. I've said it before in another thread - I don't know why I'm branded as 'hater' when in reality I'm the exact opposite.

Uh, okay. So Tiger should have known better and expected that his former instructor and "friend" would take private conversations and interactions and continue to make money off the guy by revealing those private conversations and interactions? In your mind, it's Tiger's fault that he was duped by Hank Haney into thinking that Hank understood that which we all seem to get: that stuff said in private is private.

The you're as naive as Woods to think this. It comes with the territory of being such a high-profiler as Woods. People have a hard time saying no to fame and fortune, even if it's only for 15 minutes. Tiger should know that. Just shrug it off and think "it's business".
Don't you think there is also the distinct possiblity that there was no confidentially-clause in place? I finf it hard to believe.
Woods and his people should have done a better job and predicting this outcome and should have had non-disclose contracts in place.

So again, you believe that if one guy's a douche, it's open season and nobody anything else does can be regarded as douchey. i.e. Because Tiger cheated on Elin, Hank can be a douche and spill experiences that existed within the framework of a friendship?

Got it.

Tiger's had three caddies in his career. Some guys go through three in a month. A little perspective is in order, eh?

I don't know about you, but loyalty is an entirely different thing than whatever this is. Hank was called a friend, called Tiger a friend, and yet since T-Day 2K9 has done nothing to act like a friend or a former friend.

See #2
I think what the Woods iis upset about is that he entrusted HH as a friend and Im guessing Woods has personally read 'outtakes' or heard solid that he is not happy about. To me it sounds like HH broke a little bit of the "guy code". HH probably mentions a few things that Woods thought HH would take to his grave and keep between them

Tiger didn't write a book talking about Hank's privately expressed thoughts and feelings and emotions. His hopes, dreams, and fears. Things said in confidence and in private. Did he?

They're Hank's memories too, yes, and he's entitled to them, but he's not entitled to do whatever he wants with them. You cross a line when you take something that's private and you publish it.

Based on my observations, the more money a person has or if there is an opportunity to make money off of a person, the less loyalty they inspire. The only reason you don't see more tell all books about Madonna and Michael Jordan is because everyone from the assistant to the cooks are under confidentiality agreements.

I see none of that going on. I see people who think it's classless of Haney to share private thoughts and events publicly like he's doing.

And yet, after November 2009, what else is there that could possibly get Haney to the summit of 'Mount Classless'? Because in this repsect, Woods is Edmund Hilary.

The problem is, we already know that the book contains more than that.

Yeah, we do.

We do?
What, like the SOCOM-4 thing?
One of the reasons I suspect Woods, and by default, his fanbase, always get so worked up about things like a traitorous-tell-all book by a former friend, is that he has multiple things still to hide.
You typically don't see people lose it like Woods does in these situations unless there is some deep seeded paranoia around dark secrets that could come out.
In the end, I think this book will be more of a compliment to Woods than anything. HH appreciates the time they spent together and wants to document some of it, no big deal.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Haney's contempt for Tiger is further shown in the books release date.  I realize it's possible the book company set the release date but if Haney wanted to do the right thing he'd have released it earlier or waited until after the Masters so it wouldn't be such a distraction for Tiger.

As stated earlier, it's the publisher that sets the release dates, not the author(s).  Sure, they want to release it when the interest in golf, at least for the general public, is at its highest, during Masters week. Wouldn't you?

As far as it's being a "distraction", how so? Woods has made it clear he would not be talking about the book, so any press conference questions on that subject will be ignored. I can't think of any other distractions that he would face, over and above the usual Masters hoopla.

[newtogolf]

If the publisher sets the date and the author doesn't have any input then that lets Haney off the hook for that.  I've done some micro-publishing and was able to specify the release date but for something like Haneys book I'm sure he has less input.

Tiger may not choose to ignore questions, but that won't stop guys like Micelli from asking about parts of the book.  Also by the Masters the book will be available for everyone in the gallery to have read.  We know Tiger is a private person, so whatever other tidbits Haney has written about will be fair game for all the press and Tiger haters to throw out at him.  Whether or not he responds won't minimize the fact that everyone will know about his business and that in itself for a guy like Tiger could prove to be a major distraction.

Originally Posted by Harmonious

As stated earlier, it's the publisher that sets the release dates, not the author(s).  Sure, they want to release it when the interest in golf, at least for the general public, is at its highest, during Masters week. Wouldn't you?

As far as it's being a "distraction", how so? Woods has made it clear he would not be talking about the book, so any press conference questions on that subject will be ignored. I can't think of any other distractions that he would face, over and above the usual Masters hoopla.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by RichF

But here we go again, just because I'm posting something objectively, and it doesn't fit in with what little world the fanboys (you excluded, as per pas debate) want to hear. I've said it before in another thread - I don't know why I'm branded as 'hater' when in reality I'm the exact opposite.

That you think it's objective is at least part of the problem. Why should Tiger be found faulty when we're talking about Hank's decisions/actions?

Originally Posted by RichF

The you're as naive as Woods to think this. It comes with the territory of being such a high-profiler as Woods. People have a hard time saying no to fame and fortune, even if it's only for 15 minutes. Tiger should know that. Just shrug it off and think "it's business".

Don't you think there is also the distinct possiblity that there was no confidentially-clause in place? I finf it hard to believe.

Woods and his people should have done a better job and predicting this outcome and should have had non-disclose contracts in place.

So what if they didn't? Still doesn't make Haney's actions less "cool."

Originally Posted by RichF

I think what the Woods iis upset about is that he entrusted HH as a friend and Im guessing Woods has personally read 'outtakes' or heard solid that he is not happy about. To me it sounds like HH broke a little bit of the "guy code". HH probably mentions a few things that Woods thought HH would take to his grave and keep between them

Yeah, that's the "not cool" part.

Originally Posted by RichF

And yet, after November 2009, what else is there that could possibly get Haney to the summit of 'Mount Classless'? Because in this repsect, Woods is Edmund Hilary.

Who cares about Woods in this discussion? My goodness. So because Woods behaved like he did, everyone else can be a classless uncool bro-code-violating douche? I don't think so. You seem to.

That's what this boils down to for you. You see Haney's actions as another excuse to rip on Tiger. Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by RichF

You typically don't see people lose it like Woods does in these situations unless there is some deep seeded paranoia around dark secrets that could come out.

In the end, I think this book will be more of a compliment to Woods than anything. HH appreciates the time they spent together and wants to document some of it, no big deal.

Woods didn't "lose it" and your continued characterization of that is silly. If there was more in the book, we'd have heard about it. I suspect we've already gotten the juiciest bits.

It will likely be complimentary. Hank thinks Tiger is the best ever. Doesn't change the fact that he's sharing private conversations, events, etc.

Take care.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Charles Barkeley was Hank's big miss, not Tiger.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by RichF

Quote:

Well, the vilification of Haney is expected I suppose, but where is the criticism of Woods?

Really?  You don't think there has been criticism of Woods?  Have you been asleep for the last 2 years?  Have you been asleep for the last 2 weeks?  What HASN'T he been criticized for?

Don't bother replying.  I'm done with you.

[jhwmusic]

That golf digest article kinda made Tiger sound like a crazy person...lost touch with reality for a bit.  Here is a joke I just came up with.  What's the difference between Charlie Sheen and TIger Woods?  Charlie is "Winning!"  I'll be here all week!  Thank you, thank you!

Don't reenact scenes from Platoon with Charlie Sheen!

[jamo]

The NY Times got ahold of an unauthorized copy of the book ([URL=https://twitter.com/#!/HankDHaney/status/181133391708700672]according to Haney's Twitter[/URL]), and released some more excerpts this morning: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/sports/golf/woodss-distractions-detailed-by-his-ex-coach.html?_r=1&ref;=todayspaper

[Zwick]

Thanks for the link Jamo. I hope I don't have any "friends" like Haney. This guy seems like the ultimate snitch...

[brocks]

If what the NYT says is accurate, Haney is really despicable. Not content to repeat things he was told in confidence that have nothing to do with golf, he also thinks it's his duty to repeat every negative thing Tiger said, or that Haney believes that Tiger even thought, about other players. By name. That should go over great at the next Ryder Cup. And before the haters pile on about how it's somehow Tiger's fault for not liking everybody, do you like everybody you work with? How would you like it if a former friend told them everything bad you had ever said about them, and you had to keep working with them for the next ten years? Gee, I wonder why Tiger is so guarded?

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by jamo

The NY Times got ahold of an unauthorized copy of the book (according to Haney's Twitter), and released some more excerpts this morning: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/sports/golf/woodss-distractions-detailed-by-his-ex-coach.html?_r=1&ref;=todayspaper

Tiger's probably thinking, "I wish I'd said 'No' when that douche asked for a popsicle."

Why didn't anyone else make public his Navy seal workout sessions?  Maybe because those guys have honour.