Good Golf Posture (How to Address the Golf Ball)

[iacas]

Originally Posted by golfballs01

You will also notice that the more experienced players will be in a more upright position which makes it easier to turn and transfer weight. Most tour players are between 58 and 65 degrees upright depending on the club they're hitting, with a straight back. They don't stick their rear ends out excessively, they just have a straight back. They've memorized a correct position and they adhere to it. The more upright a person is, the less they have to contend with balance and the easier it is to perform the body movements.

Did you look at the first post?

I would not describe any of those players as having "straight backs" particularly the upper back. They've rounded their shoulders in significantly, many have their chins down slightly, etc.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by golfballs01

You will also notice that the more experienced players will be in a more upright position which makes it easier to turn and transfer weight. Most tour players are between 58 and 65 degrees upright depending on the club they're hitting, with a straight back. They don't stick their rear ends out excessively, they just have a straight back.

We might disagree on what straight back means.  I would say that most, especially the best players of all time (Palmer, Jack, Hogan, Jones, Faldo, Tiger) have curvature in the upper back.  I would even agree that there isn't one player in the Hall of Fame that has a straight back.  Straight lumbar spine, yes but not the entire back.

Here's Tiger from 2000, some consider this the best swing of all time

[Harmonious]

If you ask someone to point out where their back is, they would not point to the area above their shoulder blades.  I would say that's my neck area. And I don't think it is possible to maneuver your body such that all the vertebrae are perfectly aligned, so it's really a moot point.

There's really no need to discredit golfballs01 by somehow redefining where the back is located.

[iacas]

Harmonious, the back extends from the above your butt to below your neck. Your neck is pretty much from the top of your shoulders to the base of your spine. Between the shoulder blades is still your "back." There's no re-defining going on there.

If you tell people to "straighten their back" they don't just try to straighten the portion below their shoulder blades (their lumbar spine). They straighten everything (including the spine in the neck region).

There's no discrediting - simply looking to define words more carefully than "back" - hence Mike's use of "lumbar spine" and "thoracic spine" and so on (cervical spine).

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

There's no discrediting - simply looking to define words more carefully than "back" - hence Mike's use of "lumbar spine" and "thoracic spine" and so on (cervical spine).

Yes, obviously not trying to discredit anyone, just clarifying and being more specific when we talk about anatomy.  There is too much generalization when it comes to golf instruction, not saying that's what Christopher did, but I want to be better than all the stuff we usually hear on on GC and golf mags.  We hear too much get into an "athletic posture", like you're a shortstop or a ready position.  What does that mean?  Could mean 30 different things to 30 different people.  By segmenting what parts of the back I feel should be straight and curved, hopefully we can articulate a more clear definition of good posture.

[elpyno78]

Interesting topic. I've always had an anterior tilt in my pelvis, and believe it to be the root cause of my swing problems. So roughly 2 years ago I began tucking under for a while as my sole swing thought and was really hitting it well..until I tore a stomach muscle and had to abandon golf (and football) for a while so haven't tried it since...forgot about it. On a similar note was working on my rounded shoulders this evening on the range after seeing some footage of my swing, however noticed no improvement on strike and my back is still bit uncomfortable regardless. Must try the latter solution once more without engaging the core this time.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Should the knees be bent sufficiently to obscure view of your shoe laces?  I'm asking because in my lesson yesterday I was told I'd gain higher swing speeds from a more athletic stance where my knees were bent more and the weight was on the balls of my feet.  He used the reference quoted here about bending the knees so I couldn't see my shoe laces as a guide.

As Erik basically said, you'd have to be in a very very deep squat, like weight lifting squats style, with the weight even or towards the heels of your feet, to literally not be able to see your shoelaces.  That said, the knee bend question brings up something I meant to ask about.

I had a lesson recently that was nine holes, on the course (the guy carried a little camera, so we got some in lesson camera work and he sent me the vids after).  One thing he focused on that I liked was trying to come up with swing thoughts that fit me to try to make the proper swing feel more athletic rather than mechanical.  I was a good pitcher back in the day, and he asked me to do a little dry pitching motion.  He said to notice how I drive off the back leg as a way to note that I might feel more athletic initiating the down swing thinking of that drive, which obviously requires some knee flexion at the top of the swing.

I noted that a lot of instructors these days talk about how keeping the knee flexed is an old tip that's basically incorrect, and he said that yes, your back knee straightens, but he thought I was getting my back knee a little too straight, and keeping a little bit more flexion might help me drive off the back foot and initiate my down swing in a more athletic way.

Anyone think that's not good advice, and that it'll lead to more problems than it solves?  Just to note, it wasn't like I was locking my knee or anything, but it was getting pretty close to straight.

[saevel25]

Some golfer's keep there back leg more flexed than others, i think these golfers tend to be a bit more flexible in the core region. Most players have significant straightening of that back leg.

I agree with that posture should be were you are in balance, were you wouldn't fall forward or backwards if someone were to push you lightly in the chest or back. It should be relaxed were you are able to react to the swing with out much tension.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by mdl

As Erik basically said, you'd have to be in a very very deep squat, like weight lifting squats style, with the weight even or towards the heels of your feet, to literally not be able to see your shoelaces.  That said, the knee bend question brings up something I meant to ask about.

I had a lesson recently that was nine holes, on the course (the guy carried a little camera, so we got some in lesson camera work and he sent me the vids after).  One thing he focused on that I liked was trying to come up with swing thoughts that fit me to try to make the proper swing feel more athletic rather than mechanical.  I was a good pitcher back in the day, and he asked me to do a little dry pitching motion.  He said to notice how I drive off the back leg as a way to note that I might feel more athletic initiating the down swing thinking of that drive, which obviously requires some knee flexion at the top of the swing.

I noted that a lot of instructors these days talk about how keeping the knee flexed is an old tip that's basically incorrect, and he said that yes, your back knee straightens, but he thought I was getting my back knee a little too straight, and keeping a little bit more flexion might help me drive off the back foot and initiate my down swing in a more athletic way.

Anyone think that's not good advice, and that it'll lead to more problems than it solves?  Just to note, it wasn't like I was locking my knee or anything, but it was getting pretty close to straight.

I prefer to see the right knee straighten a good amount, 15-20*.  To me it just makes the pivot so much easier.  Staying centered, getting the left shoulder down enough.  I had a student on Evolvr that was straightening the right knee at too fast a rate, which was moving the head down and forward and then causing him to tilt back on the downswing.   So he has been feeling like it straightens much slower so the head can stay centered.  Players that don't straighten it enough have a tendency to turn the hips and shoulders too flat and lift the arms.

There will still be a "drive off your right foot" as the knee goes from top of the backswing to regaining it's address flexion.  Go with whatever works better for you but keep this in mind.

I like this video to illustrate how much more dynamic the pivot can be

But it doesn't have to straighten that much, like Rory below.  I actually think it requires more flexibility to do what Rory is doing below than Palmer.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

That being said, how do you explain why Sam Snead's pants are up so high?  If I pull them up, will I swing like Sam?

I have a bunch of old All-Star4 Golf shows that I taped some time ago which explain Sam Snead's pants. They also explain Jimmy Demaret's pants and just about everybody else's who played golf in the 1050's. Pants were cut that high. The waistband almost comes up to the bottom of the ribcage. It looks really silly, especially from the back, but that was the style back then. With pants like that and a good swing, there's no reason why you couldn't play like Sam.

[Th3R00st3r]

I'm sorry, what was the consensus here?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Th3R00st3r

I'm sorry, what was the consensus here?

Don't look like the old Adam Scott set-up, look more like Arnold Palmer

[Th3R00st3r]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Don't look like the old Adam Scott set-up, look more like Arnold Palmer

Ok, that's what i thought..gotta return those pants I bought!

[bilinguru]

Really interesting thread.  Talking about good posture, it's interesting to note how posture impacts putting.  I was on the practice green for a couple of hours the other day, and I noticed that when I had a more upright posture, I took the putter straight back, whereas when I was more 'slouched' the putter head tended to hover more and wasn't as consistent.  Of course the putter length has a lot to do with what posture you'll take, but just thought I'd throw that in there.  Seems there is even greater variation in posture with regards to putting, which begs the question as to whether there is room for more variation in full swing posture.

[Stretch]

A guy down here in South Africa has started selling a training aid that's somewhat relevant to this discussion.

http://www.chinrite.com/pages/3531/how-chinrite-works

We got a demo sample at our pro shop. But I just can't quite bring myself to ... ahem ... strap it on.

[MiniBlueDragon]

lol wow. It's a balloon holder with elastic on it and he's selling it for $19.95. haha

[newtogolf]

Myabe that's why Hogan and others smoked while they golfed, it game them a swing path line to keep their arms parallel to.

Originally Posted by Stretch

A guy down here in South Africa has started selling a training aid that's somewhat relevant to this discussion.

http://www.chinrite.com/pages/3531/how-chinrite-works

We got a demo sample at our pro shop. But I just can't quite bring myself to ... ahem ... strap it on.

[jamo]

A guy down here in South Africa has started selling a training aid that's somewhat relevant to this discussion. We got a demo sample at our pro shop. But I just can't quite bring myself to ... ahem ... strap it on. :whistle:

It grows a size every time you hit one OB.