My stats - what would you work on ?

[topgrape]

Hi everyone

New member from England here. These are the stats from my last 25 rounds which are pretty typical of my overall game :

Fairways hit    54%

GIR   35%

Putts per round   35

My handicap is 16 which I pretty much play to within a couple of shots either way. Like most people I have limited practise time so would like to get the most bang for my practise buck.

I don't know if those stats give you enough information to form an opinion but I'd be interested to hear what you think would give me the best chance of lowering my handicap. I'm tending towards working on my shorter irons to try to hit more greens in regulation.

What would you guys be doing ?

Andy

[cipher]

Short game...  Missing 12 greens on average you should be getting up and down more and not putting 35 putts per round.  Means you are not chipping and pitching it close enough and or you are struggling with your putting.  Fairways and greens are not that bad at your handicap.

[jbishop15]

I'd say greens in regulation.

Short game will knock off strokes, definitely, but having a better GIR percentage will lead to the better scores. You can only go so far with a good short game; the ball striking has to be there, too.

If you could work on getting that GIR up to 50%, that'd be a good first goal. Take a look at the 65/25/10 practice thread on here; it's fantastic.

Disclaimer: short game work is incredibly important. I dont want to diminish it. But I would still work on GIR.

[mchepp]

I think this thread is what you are looking for. http://thesandtrap.com/t/58816/65-25-10-practice-ratios-where-to-devote-your-practice-time

[mdl]

Depends.  Just based on those numbers I'd agree with jbishop15 and say you want to work on ball striking with your irons.  If that 54% is the good half of very erratic tee shots and you're ending up a couple fairways over or OB on a lot of the other 46% of tee shots, then work on that too.

Of course you could also save some strokes getting a few more of those green side shots within just a few feet for more 1-putts.  I second the recommendation for the 65/25/10 practice ratio thread.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by mchepp

I think this thread is what you are looking for.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/58816/65-25-10-practice-ratios-where-to-devote-your-practice-time

Yep get that GIR up and you'll see the scores come down.

[cipher]

I do agree with you guys overall and have seen that thread before.  However I think with a couple pitching an putting technique tips he could immediately lower scores.  Obviously quality sessions of working mainly on ball striking is the best long term way to do things, but it usually requires getting lessons.  I never took any lessons until the end of last season.  I took two lessons in person and I took two months of on-line lessons.  Before taking the lessons I was hitting only 44% greens.  I am committed to taking on-line lessons this entire season if possible, so maybe it will help me hit more greens, we will see. I just think it takes more commitment, and money to do so.  A couple short game corrections is a cheaper and faster way to get some immediate big results.  I basically cut my handicap in half on my own by doing that.

[Harmonious]

Two schools of thought here:

1) Lower GIR's and you'll score better.

2) Improve short game/putting and you'll score better.

Both are true. To lower your score quicker, work on the short game/putting. To lower your score more permanently and to become a better golfer overall, work on your long game.

What I mean is, with your current ball striking, you are leaving a lot of strokes out there. On a typical round, you hit 6 greens. Let's say that equates to 13 putts (5 two-putts and 1 three-putt). On the other 12 holes that you don't hit the green, you take 22 putts. That means you hardly ever get up-and-down! If you do nothing else but improve your short game so that you average 12 putts for your 6 GIR's and get up-and-down 40% (not an unrealistic goal at your current handicap), you will have dropped your total putts to 31 (12 for GIR's and 19 for non-GIR's).  That's 4 less strokes per round.

Improving your long game will help all other areas.  Your GIR's will increase and you will be hitting it closer to the hole so your up-and-downs should improve. But you don't have an adequate short game/putter (your stats would seem to show) and that is something you can improve in a relatively short period of time and see the benefits.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by topgrape

Hi everyone

New member from England here. These are the stats from my last 25 rounds which are pretty typical of my overall game :

Fairways hit    54%

GIR   35%

Putts per round   35

My handicap is 16 which I pretty much play to within a couple of shots either way. Like most people I have limited practise time so would like to get the most bang for my practise buck.

I don't know if those stats give you enough information to form an opinion but I'd be interested to hear what you think would give me the best chance of lowering my handicap. I'm tending towards working on my shorter irons to try to hit more greens in regulation.

What would you guys be doing ?

Andy

You need to get your GIR up.  Work on your ball striking... I had similar stats in 2010.  And my current GIR is ~ 55% (last 20 rounds)... When I get my % higher than 60, that is when I shoot my best rounds.  I'm regularly shooting 75 to 80.  And my current handicap is ~ 5.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Two schools of thought here:

1) Lower GIR's and you'll score better.

2) Improve short game/putting and you'll score better.

Both are true. To lower your score quicker, work on the short game/putting. To lower your score more permanently and to become a better golfer overall, work on your long game.

What I mean is, with your current ball striking, you are leaving a lot of strokes out there. On a typical round, you hit 6 greens. Let's say that equates to 13 putts (5 two-putts and 1 three-putt). On the other 12 holes that you don't hit the green, you take 22 putts. That means you hardly ever get up-and-down! If you do nothing else but improve your short game so that you average 12 putts for your 6 GIR's and get up-and-down 40% (not an unrealistic goal at your current handicap), you will have dropped your total putts to 31 (12 for GIR's and 19 for non-GIR's).  That's 4 less strokes per round.

Improving your long game will help all other areas.  Your GIR's will increase and you will be hitting it closer to the hole so your up-and-downs should improve. But you don't have an adequate short game/putter (your stats would seem to show) and that is something you can improve in a relatively short period of time and see the benefits.

So far, I think that everybody who's answered you is given you good advice, but I think Harmonious' here is the best.

The long term answer is definitely to improve the ball striking to get the GIR up.  But it's not just that.  You start hitting more greens, you're also going to start hitting it closer on more greens too, which means more chances at birdie.

Seriously, read that 65/25/10 thread previously linked.  (No real need to read the whole thread, actually, just the OP)  Also, take note of the part about "glaring weaknesses."  You may find that either your short game/chipping or your putting qualifies as a glaring weakness.

Oh, and mdl's advice hit close to home, so I'm curious about that too.  Are your 46% missed fairways usually just a bit into the rough, or are we talking OB/hazard material?  That is where I lose my strokes.  When I keep it in play .... I'm looking at a printout of my two best rounds in the last year (a +3 73 and a +2 74) and on the first one I hit only 7 fairways and 8 greens, and on the second one I hit only 5 fairways and 9 greens.  But I had 28 and 29 putts, respectively. :)

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by mchepp

I think this thread is what you are looking for.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/58816/65-25-10-practice-ratios-where-to-devote-your-practice-time

X2

My practice time is broken up just like the link to Erik's post above. Best way I have found to do it.

Don't buy in to the out dated way of thinking that you have to devote such a huge percentage of your practice time to the short game. Its just simply untrue.

[topgrape]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Two schools of thought here:

1) Lower GIR's and you'll score better.

2) Improve short game/putting and you'll score better.

Both are true. To lower your score quicker, work on the short game/putting. To lower your score more permanently and to become a better golfer overall, work on your long game.

What I mean is, with your current ball striking, you are leaving a lot of strokes out there. On a typical round, you hit 6 greens. Let's say that equates to 13 putts (5 two-putts and 1 three-putt). On the other 12 holes that you don't hit the green, you take 22 putts. That means you hardly ever get up-and-down! If you do nothing else but improve your short game so that you average 12 putts for your 6 GIR's and get up-and-down 40% (not an unrealistic goal at your current handicap), you will have dropped your total putts to 31 (12 for GIR's and 19 for non-GIR's).  That's 4 less strokes per round.

Improving your long game will help all other areas.  Your GIR's will increase and you will be hitting it closer to the hole so your up-and-downs should improve. But you don't have an adequate short game/putter (your stats would seem to show) and that is something you can improve in a relatively short period of time and see the benefits.

Some good advice from all of you and thanks for responding. I think for now Harmonious has pointed me in the right direction (although ideally I want to increase my GIR !). His analysis of my short game makes perfect sense to me. I'll work mostly on getting up and down and putting.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Improving your long game will help all other areas.  Your GIR's will increase and you will be hitting it closer to the hole so your up-and-downs should improve. But you don't have an adequate short game/putter (your stats would seem to show) and that is something you can improve in a relatively short period of time and see the benefits.

This was the point I was going to make. You hit a decent number of fairways so working on GIRs not only helps the GIRs it helps the u/d because your misses are closer to the green. Misses closer to the green are much easier to get u/d and will make for shorter putts. Having inside 10 feet for an u/d versus 30 feet is huge and can't help but lower the putting stats.

Harmonious has explained this well.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by cipher

Short game...  Missing 12 greens on average you should be getting up and down more and not putting 35 putts per round.  Means you are not chipping and pitching it close enough and or you are struggling with your putting.  Fairways and greens are not that bad at your handicap.

That assumes that his misses are just off the green.

I'd say long game.  Hit more greens.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by dsc123

That assumes that his misses are just off the green.

Exactly, my u/d stats are always better when my misses are closer! It's the same with my putts per round, the closer to the hole, the less putts needed.

[UncleRobot]

If you want the most bang for your buck, I have a great practice game.

I have a game I play once a week with my buddies, we try and shoot lower than 85. It is called MISS EM ALL. The rules are as follows:

(1.) you have to miss EVERY green in regulation.

(2.) you have to hit out of SIX (6) bunkers.

(3.) you have to hit out of the rough SIX (6) times.

SO? how does this maximize practice and make you better?

The greens are CLOSED (off limits), so the object is to put the ball in a spot that you can easily get up and down from.

You will see your deficiencies in your short game immediately.

You cant fool yourself in this game, PARS are hard. (relatively)

The fantastic thing about this game is that:

(1.) you get used to being out of position, you have hit 18 holes without a green in regulation so, it is now common for you not to be on the green (purposely).

(2.) you actually get comfortable not being on the green.

(3.) the stress is now gone of having to hit a GIR.

(4.) now during regular play the Greens are OPEN, the target is now MUCH bigger than it was before. (and if you miss, so what, you've been here before)

SO, for those suggesting hitting more greens in regulation, this counter intuitive approach, (not hitting greens in regulation) will actually help you accomplish your goal of hitting more GIR's.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by cipher

Short game...  Missing 12 greens on average you should be getting up and down more and not putting 35 putts per round.  Means you are not chipping and pitching it close enough and or you are struggling with your putting.  Fairways and greens are not that bad at your handicap.

Originally Posted by dsc123

That assumes that his misses are just off the green.

I'd say long game.  Hit more greens.

Right.  It's also treating a symptom instead of the cause.  It's like the old doctor joke where the guy goes in and says "Hey doc, it hurts when I do this" and the doctor says ... "Don't do that."  Medicine would help short term, but its not a solution.

I also think Cipher's last sentence is a little silly.  How many people out there actually just want to match their stats to their handicap?  I don't go practice because at a 9 handicap, I'm suppose to be hitting x amount of greens.  I go practice because I don't want to be a crappy 9 handicap anymore!

[cipher]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Right.  It's also treating a symptom instead of the cause.  It's like the old doctor joke where the guy goes in and says "Hey doc, it hurts when I do this" and the doctor says ... "Don't do that."  Medicine would help short term, but its not a solution.

I also think Cipher's last sentence is a little silly.  How many people out there actually just want to match their stats to their handicap?  I don't go practice because at a 9 handicap, I'm suppose to be hitting x amount of greens.  I go practice because I don't want to be a crappy 9 handicap anymore!

Cool story. It was simply a compliment to go along with a little criticism.  Nobody is saying he should fit his stats to his handicap.  Short game technique correction is not just treating a symptom, it is a cause as well, unless you hit every green or hole every approach.  That is a bad metaphor for this.  Ultimately, a little technique correction on the short game up front can make the game more fun to play while you focus more time on your long game.  Not everyone has the time or money to do this though.  I went from a 15+ to a 4.5 in two years by hitting a cut in play, hacking it up by the green and getting up and down.  I probably was more effective than a lot of other people focusing on their long game for that stretch of time.  I did not take a single lesson during that period, because I did not have the time.    All I had the time for was to get up at 5:00 am and play nine holes before work as I was going through a job transition.  Sure what Erik is saying it the best way, but it cannot always be done that way at first.  It is not quick nor is it the cheapest, which makes sense that it is the best.   My first post was bad, oh well.  You'll get over it.