2013 Masters Discussion Thread, Update with Tiger's Illegal Drop (Post #343)

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Since they had ruled among themselves that he had not committed a breach, the implication is that even had he mentioned it, they would have given the same answer.

Come on, that's rubbish. After he did "mention it" -- ie. admitted intent -- they had give him some penalty. And have since been scrabbling around to find any justification to keep him in the tournament.

Here's what I think happened. The officials say themselves they were reviewing the issue while Tiger was playing the 18th. Is it a stretch to believe that he finished and signed before they actually got to talk to him, even though they wanted to ?

[Zeph]

As far as I understand, it was his comment in the post-round interview that made them change their mind. Up till then, they thought he just missed the spot.

[rehmwa]

We forget the upside here.

If television viewers think they can affect the outcome of a Major.  They'll watch it and call in for every shot viewed.  ESPN could have a channel for each and every player too.

Rating$ will go through the roof.  Advertising dollars will pour in.  Golf.com will get dozens of hits and Dick's will be overrun with customers.  Hell, and golf channel can have hours or bland discussion over this ruling and that ruling which was handled as best as could be and generate furious discussion anyway by old men in weird pants and polo shirts and only certain kinds of hats.....  Congrat$ to CBS and the PGA - it'$ a win for everyone.

(ok, that was a bit contrived and too cynical, but I took a shot at it.)

[clarkeycats]

I think the penalty is the right one. Tiger didn't know he was breaking any rules, so he thought the card was right, if he knew the rule he would have signed it correctly. If he signed it wrong in a different situation then a DQ would have been the right way to go. The rule was adjusted in 2011 to make sure a DQ isn't given out for this type of situation. Tiger won't win it anyway, this will be in the back of his mind and be a distraction.

[mvmac]

In case anyone hasn't seen Jamo's post

and props to Erik

[Dave H]

Originally Posted by clarkeycats

I think the penalty is the right one. Tiger didn't know he was breaking any rules, so he thought the card was right, if he knew the rule he would have signed it correctly. If he signed it wrong in a different situation then a DQ would have been the right way to go. The rule was adjusted in 2011 to make sure a DQ isn't given out for this type of situation.

Tiger won't win it anyway, this will be in the back of his mind and be a distraction.

I agree. The situation in some ways reminds me of Dustin at the PGA, was it 09? He also didn't think he broke a rule, but the committee made sure he knew he did before signing so he had the opportunity to change his score. Is it considered standard practice for the committee to do this for players?

[eich41]

Originally Posted by clarkeycats

I think the penalty is the right one. Tiger didn't know he was breaking any rules, so he thought the card was right, if he knew the rule he would have signed it correctly. If he signed it wrong in a different situation then a DQ would have been the right way to go. The rule was adjusted in 2011 to make sure a DQ isn't given out for this type of situation.

Tiger won't win it anyway, this will be in the back of his mind and be a distraction.

It doesn't matter if he intended to break the rule or not.  The rules don't only apply when you know you're breaking them.  If that were the case I would just never learn the rules and play however I wanted to.  Also the rule was adjusted in 2011 to make sure a DQ isn't given out for a rules violation that you could not reasonably discover prior to signing your card.  Nothing about this situation is something that couldn't have been discovered prior to TW signing his card.

The penalty is/would be the right decision, if and ONLY IF, Tiger brought the infraction up with the committee for review, and they had given him the okay prior to him signing his card.  If that is the case, then the penalty is the right call.  ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE, including this hypothetical argument of if he had brought it up they would have given him the okay anyways is irrelevant, the correct ruling is automatic DQ.  It's pretty black and white.  As Nick Faldo said earlier, yesterday they took a gray area rule and made it black and white with Guan's slow play penalty, and took a black and white rule and made it a gray area with Tiger's ruling.

[HOT IRISH]

There are no ifs or buts or maybes to this, & TV coverage is completely irrelevant to the issue..& as a result the committee had no basis to invoke the rule they did. Woods dropped the ball in the wrong place, he admitted doing so to get a better lie, the result was he signed for the wrong score & under the rules of golf (which although detailed are very clear) he should be DQ'd. What a bad day for the game of Golf.

[clarkeycats]

Phils just dunked it in the water at 11, gonna have to be a epic finish for him to get back in contention.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Come on, that's rubbish. After he did "mention it" -- ie. admitted intent -- they had give him some penalty. And have since been scrabbling around to find any justification to keep him in the tournament.

Here's what I think happened. The officials say themselves they were reviewing the issue while Tiger was playing the 18th. Is it a stretch to believe that he finished and signed before they actually got to talk to him, even though they wanted to?

Sure, because the tournament officials didn't know when he would finish and they didn't know where the players go to go over and sign their scorecards.

But then again, a guy named Stretch should be the expert on stretches.

[trh98]

I think the penalty is the right one. Tiger didn't know he was breaking any rules, so he thought the card was right, if he knew the rule he would have signed it correctly. If he signed it wrong in a different situation then a DQ would have been the right way to go. The rule was adjusted in 2011 to make sure a DQ isn't given out for this type of situation. Tiger won't win it anyway, this will be in the back of his mind and be a distraction.

So any player who "doesn't realize he broke a rule" and signs the scorecard he thinks is correct should never be DQ'd? While I may agree with the premise of that, I don't think that's how the rules are currently laid out.

[3putter]

Originally Posted by mvmac

In case anyone hasn't seen Jamo's post

and props to Erik

Ditto! They reviewed it and found nothing wrong with it initially.

[mtsalmela80]

Augusta knows tiger not playing the weekend would cause a huge loss of revenue. This is why this decision was made. Anyone else. Gone

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by HOT IRISH

There are no ifs or buts or maybes to this, & TV coverage is completely irrelevant to the issue..& as a result the committee had no basis to invoke the rule they did. Woods dropped the ball in the wrong place, he admitted doing so to get a better lie, the result was he signed for the wrong score & under the rules of golf (which although detailed are very clear) he should be DQ'd. What a bad day for the game of Golf.

So TV coverage is completely irrelevant, but the whole imposition of the penalty was based on TV coverage of a post-round interview.  OK, then.

[eich41]

In other news Scott Piercy has made a nice move after starting +3 on the first three holes of the tournament.  He's now down to -1 and moving.  Wouldn't be surprised to see him in the mix on Sunday afternoon.

[clarkeycats]

So any player who "doesn't realize he broke a rule" and signs the scorecard he thinks is correct should never be DQ'd? While I may agree with the premise of that, I don't think that's how the rules are currently laid out.

I think the rule that was added has left too much of a grey area. I agree that someone who signs the wrong scorecard should be DQ'd, but Tigers situation falls into the new rule. If that didn't exist then I think Tiger would have certainly been DQ'd.

[Stretch]

"I was investigated by the Cops/DA/Feds without my knowledge and thank goodness they wrongly decided they had nothing on me. Because when I did incriminate myself later by mistake, that still qualified me for country-club prison instead of pound-me-in-the-ass prison."

[BallStriker]

I am NOT in the camp that he should DQ himself.....if he does, that is OK too. They developed this rule to protect the player against themselves and this is (maybe) the first time it has been applied -- if he DQs himself, then it sets a precedent for all future players that face this situation and says "regardless of the committee's decision, the 'honorable' thing to do is DQ yourself" -- that kind of precedent undermines the new rule.

Nothing wrong with accepting the penalty and the committee's decision...NOTHING

and I am not going to get into arguing about whether the ruling by the committee was right or wrong....just whether he is OK to accept and play