Is One Required to Point Out Possible Breach of Rules?

[bkuehn1952]

I perused the Rules to see if there was a specific requirement for Competitor A to advise Competitor B of a possible breach by Competitor B.  I could not find one. I am not writing about seeing a Rules breach and then springing a "gotcha" after it is too late to correct the breach. I am also not discussing an agreement between the players to waive a Rule.  Here is an example of what I am writing about:

Competitor A sees Competitor B tamp down what appear to be scuff marks on the line of their putt made by someone shuffling their feet on the green.  Competitor A is far enough away so he is not certain that the imperfection is not damage from a ball impact and decides to not say anything.

I understand the idea of "protecting the field" but I wonder how far a competitor has to go with this idea.  I tend to not watch my fellow competitors like a hawk unless they give me reason to believe they are seeking an unfair advantage.  As such, there are situations that might be a breach but I choose to ignore them unless I am pretty certain there was a problem.

So, is there a Rule that prevents a player from using some personal discretion about possible Rules violations?

How does everyone respond to possible breaches witnessed while playing in a competition?

[Asheville]

All possible breaches are not equally observable. But, yes, speak up. If you don't wish to ruin your own round then a tactful and peaceful approach will usually be necessary. More often than not, the perp doesn't know the Rules.

[colin007]

Depends on the other player...

[David in FL]

Depends on the other player...

Whether they're a Tiger lover or a hater? ;-)

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by bkuehn1952

I perused the Rules to see if there was a specific requirement for Competitor A to advise Competitor B of a possible breach by Competitor B.  I could not find one. I am not writing about seeing a Rules breach and then springing a "gotcha" after it is too late to correct the breach. I am also not discussing an agreement between the players to waive a Rule.  Here is an example of what I am writing about:

Competitor A sees Competitor B tamp down what appear to be scuff marks on the line of their putt made by someone shuffling their feet on the green.  Competitor A is far enough away so he is not certain that the imperfection is not damage from a ball impact and decides to not say anything.

I understand the idea of "protecting the field" but I wonder how far a competitor has to go with this idea.  I tend to not watch my fellow competitors like a hawk unless they give me reason to believe they are seeking an unfair advantage.  As such, there are situations that might be a breach but I choose to ignore them unless I am pretty certain there was a problem.

So, is there a Rule that prevents a player from using some personal discretion about possible Rules violations?

How does everyone respond to possible breaches witnessed while playing in a competition?

I pretty much do it exactly like you.  I don't pay that much attention unless I feel like I have a reason to (I haven't yet - although my competitive golfing "career" has only consisted of 6 tournaments in the last 10 months).

Last tournament one of my competitors dropped twice, then placed his ball, yet I don't think it had rolled far enough from the spot to warrant a re-drop or a second re-drop.  I wasn't close enough to be sure, nor did it provide him any advantage anyway, so I didn't say anything.

If guys are tamping down stuff on the greens I will give them the benefit of the doubt until I have some other reason that they might be unscrupulous.

[colin007]

Whether they're a Tiger lover or a hater? ;-)

Lol! Nah, if it's someone I don't know or a friend who I already know cheats then I don't say anything. If it's a friend that I know follows the rules I'll say something.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by bkuehn1952

I perused the Rules to see if there was a specific requirement for Competitor A to advise Competitor B of a possible breach by Competitor B.  I could not find one. I am not writing about seeing a Rules breach and then springing a "gotcha" after it is too late to correct the breach. I am also not discussing an agreement between the players to waive a Rule.  Here is an example of what I am writing about:

Competitor A sees Competitor B tamp down what appear to be scuff marks on the line of their putt made by someone shuffling their feet on the green.  Competitor A is far enough away so he is not certain that the imperfection is not damage from a ball impact and decides to not say anything.

I understand the idea of "protecting the field" but I wonder how far a competitor has to go with this idea.  I tend to not watch my fellow competitors like a hawk unless they give me reason to believe they are seeking an unfair advantage.  As such, there are situations that might be a breach but I choose to ignore them unless I am pretty certain there was a problem.

So, is there a Rule that prevents a player from using some personal discretion about possible Rules violations?

How does everyone respond to possible breaches witnessed while playing in a competition?

You forgot the number one option:  I always watch my fellow competitors when there is a situation where a problem might arise.  I always try to stop them before they commit the breach.  If it happens so quickly that I can't stop it from happening, then yes, I call it.  One time in 22 years I was forced to do so when a player whose ball lay in a water hazard kicked a loose impediment away before I realized what he was doing.  I told him what he'd done, and he took it as well as could be expected when adding 2 strokes to his score.

In a stroke competition, every player is responsible for protecting the field from another competitor not being penalized for a breach.  It's entirely possible that one ignored infraction could make a significant difference in the final standings, and it doesn't make any difference whether I'm you are of the players who is affected.  It would be a gross miscarriage if a player was denied his place in the standings because another player above him went unpenalized.  It doesn't matter if the breach was accidental or if the player was intentionally cheating (I hope I never see this in a competition - never have so far), if you see it, you are honor bound to call it, and to do so immediately when it occurs.

This doesn't mean that you have to act like a referee, just be normally observant, and watch more closely in situations where a breach is more likely to happen.  I especially make a point of it when I'm paired with a player who has indicated some inexperience with the rules.

[Rulesman]

33-7/9

Competitor Who Knows Player Has Breached Rules Does Not Inform Player or Committee in Timely Manner

The responsibility for knowing the Rules lies with all players. In stroke play, the player and his marker have an explicit responsibility for the correctness of the player's score card.

There may, however, be exceptional individual cases where, in order to protect the interests of every other player in the competition, it would be reasonable to expect a fellow-competitor or another competitor to bring to light a player's breach of the Rules by notifying the player, his marker or the Committee.

In such exceptional circumstances, it would be appropriate for the Committee to impose a penalty of disqualification under Rule 33-7 on a fellow-competitor or another competitor if it becomes apparent that he has failed to advise the player, his marker or the Committee of a Rules breach with the clear intention of allowing that player to return an incorrect score.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You forgot the number one option:  I always watch my fellow competitors when there is a situation where a problem might arise.  I always try to stop them before they commit the breach.  If it happens so quickly that I can't stop it from happening, then yes, I call it.  One time in 22 years I was forced to do so when a player whose ball lay in a water hazard kicked a loose impediment away before I realized what he was doing.  I told him what he'd done, and he took it as well as could be expected when adding 2 strokes to his score.

This is a good point.  The best thing is to prevent the breach if possible.  Recently this came up during a tournament I was in where my fellow competitor had lagged up to about a foot and was about to tap in without removing the flagstick.  I went, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop!" fairly loud and he stopped before tapping the ball.  I told him what the problem was and he was very appreciative.  I told him if he won by one stroke he owed me big time.  As it turns out he will probably win the tournament

[Spitfisher]

Originally Posted by colin007

Lol! Nah, if it's someone I don't know or a friend who I already know cheats then I don't say anything. If it's a friend that I know follows the rules I'll say something.

I do the same but I always question the known cheater, sometimes Ill even bring something up that I know they (the cheater) didn't do, just to see how they react, keep honest or send them a message that I am watching and their Bull **** does fly with me.

Don't get me wrong, if I am paired up with a cheater I generally make a point not to play with them or request not to play with them to the pro, including when they are within ear shot. I guess you could say I don't tolerate it, especially from an adult.

[RickK]

In casual rounds of golf with no money on the line, you can do whatever you want...it really does not impact me or my score.  Just don't brag about shooting a career round when you rolled the ball everywhere, moved sticks in the hazard so you could play your shot, took drops without first marking your ball, etc.

In tournaments, it is a whole new ball game.  I don't care if you are my best bud or someone I never met before in my life...if I see you about to violate a rule, I will caution you.  If I see you actually violate a rule, I will call you on it.  If I think I saw you violate a rule, I will ask you about it.

[Spitfisher]

Originally Posted by Spitfisher

I do the same but I always question the known cheater, sometimes Ill even bring something up that I know they (the cheater) didn't do, just to see how they react, keep honest or send them a message that I am watching and their Bull **** does fly with me.

Don't get me wrong, if I am paired up with a cheater I generally make a point not to play with them or request not to play with them to the pro, including when they are within ear shot. I guess you could say I don't tolerate it, especially from an adult.

Just a note, I wish to make a clear distinction of someone who knows, should knows vs someone that blatantly is trying to lower his score thru cheating. A cheater will lie and a liar will cheat.

If someone I feel is new or does not know the rules, I'll be the first to help them out if its the right thing to do.