235 Out on This Par Five - What's the Play?

[rehmwa]

I'm going to read the thread later, I think there'll be learning here. lots of it.

from the first post - 235 to the flag, rear placement and lots of green short......light head wind (part of a club's worth?)

I'd hit my 220-225 club if I have one - you note the hybrid (for me it would be my 2H if in the bag, or my 5w).  I have a slight fade on mine unless I really control my right elbow, so I'm comfy.  You can likely just hit a light fade on purpose.  If you nail it, it'll likely go high, so the what wind is there might soften the landing.  If not, the roll out should be useful.  and rolling through the green isn't the end of the world.

seems pretty clear, if you come up short, you have a lot of green to muck with, and if you lay up, there's not much of a benefit here.  You don't need to go long due to pin placement.  So center of green if you have the fade looks pretty tasty,

that's at your handicap - seems a no brainer

I'd flip a coin on going for the green, my misses on the 5w tend to a push, but not too often.  so a miss might leave me with a lob chip or uncomfy shot from under the tree......  But it's very tasty and fits my eye really well.  If not, I'd try to layup to the 100 yard shot

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by nick1998bunker

Doesn't change my mind- thats an easy green to hit and if you hit a low hybrid you are in the middle and could run up and if not you have an easy chip- no matter what you are par or better...

Originally Posted by nick1998bunker

If you leave yourself in a bad position on this hole you will still make par, its when there are hazards and stuff in the way

Sometimes you sound like somebody who hasn't played much golf before.  I can see a couple spots where you could be in serious danger of not making par with that pin location and that green.

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Hmmm, well, I greatly appreciate the in depth analysis. I have to say I'm kinda shocked at some of the numbers. Tiger only hits the green 86% of the time from 100-125 yards?! The #100 player only hits it 75%?! That's shocking to me.

Which puts into perspective the claims of some of the amateurs here who hit it to within 15 feet "90% of the time" from 100 yards...and other similar claims.

Originally Posted by David in FL

A couple of years ago, in conjunction with the British Open, The Golf Channel did a little show with the caddies at St Andrews.  One caddie was asked what the most common comment was that he heard from visiting amateurs.  His response was "Don't worry, I've got this shot".......  He said, inevitably, they didn't!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

I mean, if the picture shown is a 235 yard par 3, are you laying up because the odds of getting par will be higher than if you go for the green? The situation is different, but the stats aren't. According the Erik's stats, you'd be better off laying up and trying to scramble for par or at worst a bogey, instead of going for it and ending up bogey or worse if you miss.

Right. The same shot values apply. Par is irrelevant.

But as you would agree, Slice (particularly if you saw the hole): it's unlikely that this would be the green they designed for a 235-yard par three. :)

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by iacas

Right. The same shot values apply. Par is irrelevant.

But as you would agree, Slice (particularly if you saw the hole): it's unlikely that this would be the green they designed for a 235-yard par three. :)

Right. That would just be cruel. Haha.

Though, there is one at Sleepy Hollow near me. 210-240 yard par 3 (depending on the pin location) with a 2-level green. With the pin in the back, even if you hit the green, if you're not up on the 2nd level, it's a real tough 2-putt. And if you're long...you're screwed.

Needless to say, I'm happy with a bogey on that hole.

[nick1998bunker]

Guan tialang who could really reach many of the par 4s at Agusta laid up to a certain yardage and it worked for him... But his wedge game is far better than most amateurs

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

After reading the hints from the pros my gut tells me he played whatever iron that put him as close the green as possible and pitched/chipped it close for a one putt. Unless I'm wrong they all appear to be proponents of playing smart/safe. What is Erik's 185-190 club? 5i? The trees are the only real trouble but enough to make you think. What is the hole handicap?

Yay me, yeah I just quoted myself. LOL lot's of stubborn amateurs here that can't resist the high risk shots. I'll never understand the golf is only fun if I am flying of the rails mentality. I think too many are influenced but what they see tour pros doing not understanding that the difficult shots they attempt, and often pull off, are not high risk shot relative to their abilities. Though it also appears many are making a beer or bathroom run when the tour guys play safe because it happens quite a bit.

[Zeph]

Short of the green does sound like a good option. And it's something higher handicaps can do too, not just those at scratch. If you can hit a long iron somewhat consistently straight, you're getting a lot of free distance from the downhill, and being closer is always better. If the landing area in front of the green were more hazardous, laying up might be the more sensible option, but on this hole, a lot of players should be able to comfortably get it close up to the green. I know I'd rather be 30-40 yards from the hole than 100 yards.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by iacas

Right. The same shot values apply. Par is irrelevant.

But as you would agree, Slice (particularly if you saw the hole): it's unlikely that this would be the green they designed for a 235-yard par three. :)

Yea, once i thought about it, I got caught up away from the percentages. Oops!

Interesting, i might have to delve deeper into the accuracy of my clubs and see if i can save a few strokes on the golf course.

I guess if you wanted to go deeper, you could go, proximity hitting fades versus draws, and really get into how you should play a course. Thought that might be over kill.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by saevel25

I guess if you wanted to go deeper, you could go, proximity hitting fades versus draws, and really get into how you should play a course. Thought that might be over kill.

It would be, especially since you should play whatever shape you play normally 95% of the time. The other 5% is trouble or extreme shots that force your hand.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by iacas

It would be, especially since you should play whatever shape you play normally 95% of the time. The other 5% is trouble or extreme shots that force your hand.

Yep. I've learned to not try to force a draw. It almost never ever works for me...typically it goes straight and screws me, or I chunk it. I can almost always hit a fade or slice on command, but a draw...asking for trouble. I've learned to lay up in those situations for the time being.

[bplewis24]

Site admins/owners aren't allowed to win the "kickstarter of the month" award, are they? If they are, then I'm starting to wonder about the motivation for starting this thread.

Kidding.  One of the reasons why I was thinking "lay up to just in front of the green" originally was because of my shot shape.  I basically can't play a fade, and if I try to, very bad things can happen.  So trying to draw my 3w over the trees to reach the hole location wasn't a good option for me.

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Yep. I've learned to not try to force a draw. It almost never ever works for me...

fading or drawing on purpose - I've had more luck with that (on days I feel I'm hitting good) since I've decided that the most I can ask for is just a slight shaping and not overdoing the inputs.  (e.g., I want a draw - ok, a reasonable in to out swing and close the face just a hair seems to work, exaggerated in to out and shut down that face just results in a push/shank)  (e.g. #2, I want a fade, normal swing, just don't keep the right elbow so tight on the swing works ok, forcing a big out to in sweep again just a shank)

On regular days (most of time), I'm just trying for decent contact and hoping the ball flies in the general direction of the flag......

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Site admins/owners aren't allowed to win the "kickstarter of the month" award, are they?  If they are, then I'm starting to wonder about the motivation for starting this thread.

Kidding.  One of the reasons why I was thinking "lay up to just in front of the green" originally was because of my shot shape.  I basically can't play a fade, and if I try to, very bad things can happen.  So trying to draw my 3w over the trees to reach the hole location wasn't a good option for me.

Nope. :) No awards for Mike or I. (We'd usually win them for the majors discussion threads if that was the case.)

And didn't you read several pages back? The purpose of this thread is clearly to stroke my own ego (HOW, I have no idea) and to use the site to do what I always do: self-promote. Nothing we do here is to help golfers - not the free swing advice, not the discussion about strategy, none of the reviews, nothing. In fact, y'all don't know it, but the forum isn't even free - we're able to secretly and slowly drain your PayPal accounts at a rate of one penny every 14 trillion seconds. In no time at all we'll be RICH! RICH I SAY!

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by iacas

Nope. :) No awards for Mike or I. (We'd usually win them for the majors discussion threads if that was the case.)

And didn't you read several pages back? The purpose of this thread is clearly to stroke my own ego (HOW, I have no idea) and to use the site to do what I always do: self-promote. Nothing we do here is to help golfers - not the free swing advice, not the discussion about strategy, none of the reviews, nothing. In fact, y'all don't know it, but the forum isn't even free - we're able to secretly and slowly drain your PayPal accounts at a rate of one penny every 14 trillion seconds. In no time at all we'll be RICH! RICH I SAY!

I knew it...

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

And didn't you read several pages back? The purpose of this thread is clearly to stroke my own ego (HOW, I have no idea) and to use the site to do what I always do: self-promote. Nothing we do here is to help golfers - not the free swing advice, not the discussion about strategy, none of the reviews, nothing. In fact, y'all don't know it, but the forum isn't even free - we're able to secretly and slowly drain your PayPal accounts at a rate of one penny every 14 trillion seconds. In no time at all we'll be RICH! RICH I SAY!

Cats out of the bag

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by iacas

Those aren't necessarily "most likely." You'll bogey from those bunkers far more often than you're considering (even if you get it on the putting surface, you'll three-putt fairly often given the severity), and you left out "I hit it over the back or left of the green, and from there I'm fortunate to make par." I bet if I could watch you hit balls for a bit (with your improved motion, I mean) before we played, and I coached you around the golf course, you could save 5-10 strokes.

Could be.  Hogan once said that if he caddied for Snead, then Snead would never lose.

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by iacas

Nope. :) No awards for Mike or I. (We'd usually win them for the majors discussion threads if that was the case.)

And didn't you read several pages back? The purpose of this thread is clearly to stroke my own ego (HOW, I have no idea) and to use the site to do what I always do: self-promote. Nothing we do here is to help golfers - not the free swing advice, not the discussion about strategy, none of the reviews, nothing. In fact, y'all don't know it, but the forum isn't even free - we're able to secretly and slowly drain your PayPal accounts at a rate of one penny every 14 trillion seconds. In no time at all we'll be RICH! RICH I SAY!

Thank god i don't keep money in my paypal account. Uh oh, i'll probably be dropped from the site now

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Cats out of the bag

I would hit the cat with a 5 iron and then bury it in bplewis's yard. But I acknowledge that there are other valid approaches.