2013 BMW Championship Discussion Thread

[Golfingdad]

Jim Furyk's 59 yesterday, coming after a 72 the first day, got me wondering what has been the highest single round score a PGA tour winner has ever shot.  I'd be amused to find out some guy went 63-80-64-64, or something like that, to pull off a victory.

Anybody have any idea?

[nick1998bunker]

Not sure but some guy shot 114 and 123 on the weekend

[JetFan1983]

Jim Furyk's 59 yesterday, coming after a 72 the first day, got me wondering what has been the highest single round score a PGA tour winner has ever shot.  I'd be amused to find out some guy went 63-80-64-64, or something like that, to pull off a victory.

Anybody have any idea?

Roy McAvoy came close. What was his Open score again? 82-61-64-83 or something insane like that?

[Mulligan Jeff]

Loved McAvoy's shot that richoceted off a watercloset and ran onto the green!

[Zeph]

Also talking about tigers perspective on the ruling. From our angle of the video (horizontal) you can see the marks as reference to see that it moved down. From tigers view of above you can't really use the marks as reference and it moved down which is kinda hard to pick up from above.

That's right. Which is why you shouldn't touch twigs around your ball if you know this can happen. Especially if your name is Tiger Woods and you got a dozen camera on your ball at all times.

[iacas]

OTOH, not surprised at Sergio's reaction in 18 fairway at fan who yelled at him DURING his swing on his layup.  That guy (the fan, not Sergio) deserves a kick to the groin.

Well, Sergio does deserve a kick to the groin, but not for the fan's behavior on 18…

[bplewis24]

What's is up with these bounces

Maybe a bit of karma .

In my defense (from earlier), I'd like to point out that Johnny Miller (who was very critical of Tiger during the broadcast, even if only implicitly), said it took him 5 times before he could spot it after initially viewing on a smaller screen.  So I don't feel like I'm alone in not being able to see it earlier.

OTOH, not surprised at Sergio's reaction in 18 fairway at fan who yelled at him DURING his swing on his layup.  That guy (the fan, not Sergio) deserves a kick to the groin.

That's the first time I've ever seen the broadcast crew claim somebody yelled during the backswing and, upon review, the guy actually yelled during the backswing.  Every other time it has been at least a count after the swing.  But this was clearly during the swing.

Well, Sergio does deserve a kick to the groin, but not for the fan's behavior on 18…

Sergio has definitely brought some of this upon himself, even if the behavior of the fan(s) shouldn't be tolerated.

[burrito007]

Ummmmm, pretty sure nobody is "forgetting" that one…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEDyD4gQgio

sorry thats the one i was thinking of.  i remember watching it in 2000 and being like... wtf.

also yeah his fans definitely were helping here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msQ03YqkhjM

tons of other examples.  now he's not as popular so he's not getting good breaks and the rules officials arent looking the other way.

[bplewis24]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEDyD4gQgio

sorry thats the one i was thinking of.  i remember watching it in 2000 and being like... wtf.

also yeah his fans definitely were helping here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msQ03YqkhjM

tons of other examples.  now he's not as popular so he's not getting good breaks and the rules officials arent looking the other way.

You're conflating issues that have nothing to do with each other.

First of all, balls ricocheting off of a fan into a favorable situation (the 2nd video) is nothing new nor exclusive to Woods.  2nd, it's not his fault if a fan does something they're not supposed to.  3rd, being popular has nothing to do with the way your ball bounces.  And fourth, none of the aforementioned have anything to do with rules officials looking the other way, and getting penalized now is not proof that they were looking the other way before.  It's circumstantial at best.

Stop stretching the truth to create a narrative.

[MEfree]

Thanks for posting the video, on the news the logo appeared to move more than it does here.  What is more confusing to me is why he'd even try to move the stick without a rules official watching.  It looks pretty clear from the video that the ball was resting on the stick, and any attempt to move it would cause the ball to move.

Also talking about tigers perspective on the ruling. From our angle of the video (horizontal) you can see the marks as reference to see that it moved down. From tigers view of above you can't really use the marks as reference and it moved down which is kinda hard to pick up from above.

That's right. Which is why you shouldn't touch twigs around your ball if you know this can happen. Especially if your name is Tiger Woods and you got a dozen camera on your ball at all times.

I'd be shocked if Tiger's ball was actually resting on the stick unless Tiger is much less intelligent than I think he is.

I tried to move a pine cone the other day that looked to me that it was close, but not touching my ball and my ball started to move, so I put the pine cone back with the ball going back to the original position.  Had there been a camera focused on my ball from a distance, I am sure it would have looked like the pine cone was touching my ball, but from my perspective, it was not.

[phan52]

Also talking about tigers perspective on the ruling. From our angle of the video (horizontal) you can see the marks as reference to see that it moved down. From tigers view of above you can't really use the marks as reference and it moved down which is kinda hard to pick up from above.

Nobody had a better view than Tiger that the ball moved and did not oscillate.

[nick1998bunker]

Nobody had a better view than Tiger that the ball moved and did not oscillate.

If your looking down on an all white ball and it drops straight down a fraction of an inch it is hard to pick up. If your looking at it from the side and with black lines to use as reference it is much easier

[Royster1984]

Does anyone know of any site which will be streaming the golf tomorrow? I m currently on holiday in Portugal and my sky go wont work over the hotels Portuguese wifi, so I m after a way to watch it via a stream or something. Thanks Anth

[3putter]

You're conflating issues that have nothing to do with each other.   First of all, balls ricocheting off of a fan into a favorable situation (the 2nd video) is nothing new nor exclusive to Woods.  2nd, it's not his fault if a fan does something they're not supposed to.  3rd, being popular has nothing to do with the way your ball bounces.  And fourth, none of the aforementioned have anything to do with rules officials looking the other way, and getting penalized now is not proof that they were looking the other way before.  It's circumstantial at best. Stop stretching the truth to create a narrative.

I could not have said it any better.

[9iron]

On whether or not Tiger could see his ball move ...

Someone mentioned that what you can see from the perspective of the camera lens i.e. horizontally is not what Tiger saw from his viewpoint i.e. vertically. They cite the logo being more visible from the horizontal plane used by the camera than from the vertical plane where Tiger's eyes are. Someone else spoke about an "all white ball". IMO both points miss the mark.

Firstly, Tiger is not exactly above the ball. His eyes do not look straight down, he is at an angle. Second, who moves loose impediments that sit immediately next to their ball without keeping one eye on the ball itself? The only reason to be so careful moving those loose impediments is because it may have an impact on the ball, thus causing you to incur a penalty stroke. Third, in a lifetime of play I have moved 1000's of loose impediments near my golf ball and the golf ball logo is not something I ever look at. I look at the entire ball. If the ball moves, it is the entire ball moving that I see.

Also, and not that it matters for reasons stated above, the ball is not "all white", it has multiple areas of markings on it. But even if it were all white, the background behind the ball was virtually all brown, and this provides excellent contrast to see if a white ball has changed positions against the brown background.

I contend that the human eye, assuming 20-20 visions exists in the person viewing this movement, is good enough to see the amount of movement in Tiger's ball. On that basis alone I would believe that Tiger saw the ball move. But there is more. Tiger's own action i.e. the immediate stopping of his attempt to move the stick once the ball had moved, is an indication he saw the ball move.

Golf Channel Reports More to the Story ...

Immediately after his round the Golf Channel reported that when confronted with the film of this incident Tiger stated his ball had oscillated. Well, yesterday the Golf Channel reported more. They said that when confronted Tiger first said "I don't see anything". Shown a 2nd time he said "I still don't see anything". The head rules official then informs Tiger that his ball moved and he accepts two strokes penalty, one for moving the ball and the second for playing it from the wrong position. The Golf Channel also interview, anonymously, some other players. One said that the more this happens with Tiger the more he'll be known for this among the players. Hard to place weight on this without knowing who said it. But fwiw, they aired the comment during the weekend's broadcast.

Tiger's Year and Rules Problems

This is now the fourth time in 2013 whereby Tiger has been involved in one controversy or another over rules situations.

In Dubai he took an embedded ball, made a drop, and played it from the drop. The problem was that his ball was embedded in a sand area i.e. a hazard. You don't get embedded ball relief from such a hazard.

The drop at The Masters.

The drop at The Players Championship on the final 9 after his tee shot went over the water hazard. This one isn't crystal clear because it is scientifically impossible to know where the ball first crossed the water. The blimp camera view makes it appear to be fairly close to the tee box, the 2nd player in Tiger's group says it is fairly close to where ball hit the water.

This latest incident from the BMW.

Three of the four incidents above resulted in Tiger recording / handing in a score lower than that which was earned and the Tour doling out penalties to him that he otherwise had not recorded on his card. This is a disappointing trend for the World's #1 ranked player.

[MSchott]

On whether or not Tiger could see his ball move ...

Someone mentioned that what you can see from the perspective of the camera lens i.e. horizontally is not what Tiger saw from his viewpoint i.e. vertically. They cite the logo being more visible from the horizontal plane used by the camera than from the vertical plane where Tiger's eyes are. Someone else spoke about an "all white ball". IMO both points miss the mark.

Firstly, Tiger is not exactly above the ball. His eyes do not look straight down, he is at an angle. Second, who moves loose impediments that sit immediately next to their ball without keeping one eye on the ball itself? The only reason to be so careful moving those loose impediments is because it may have an impact on the ball, thus causing you to incur a penalty stroke. Third, in a lifetime of play I have moved 1000's of loose impediments near my golf ball and the golf ball logo is not something I ever look at. I look at the entire ball. If the ball moves, it is the entire ball moving that I see.

Also, and not that it matters for reasons stated above, the ball is not "all white", it has multiple areas of markings on it. But even if it were all white, the background behind the ball was virtually all brown, and this provides excellent contrast to see if a white ball has changed positions against the brown background.

I contend that the human eye, assuming 20-20 visions exists in the person viewing this movement, is good enough to see the amount of movement in Tiger's ball. On that basis alone I would believe that Tiger saw the ball move. But there is more. Tiger's own action i.e. the immediate stopping of his attempt to move the stick once the ball had moved, is an indication he saw the ball move.

Golf Channel Reports More to the Story ...

Immediately after his round the Golf Channel reported that when confronted with the film of this incident Tiger stated his ball had oscillated. Well, yesterday the Golf Channel reported more. They said that when confronted Tiger first said "I don't see anything". Shown a 2nd time he said "I still don't see anything". The head rules official then informs Tiger that his ball moved and he accepts two strokes penalty, one for moving the ball and the second for playing it from the wrong position. The Golf Channel also interview, anonymously, some other players. One said that the more this happens with Tiger the more he'll be known for this among the players. Hard to place weight on this without knowing who said it. But fwiw, they aired the comment during the weekend's broadcast.

Tiger's Year and Rules Problems

This is now the fourth time in 2013 whereby Tiger has been involved in one controversy or another over rules situations.

In Dubai he took an embedded ball, made a drop, and played it from the drop. The problem was that his ball was embedded in a sand area i.e. a hazard. You don't get embedded ball relief from such a hazard.

The drop at The Masters.

The drop at The Players Championship on the final 9 after his tee shot went over the water hazard. This one isn't crystal clear because it is scientifically impossible to know where the ball first crossed the water. The blimp camera view makes it appear to be fairly close to the tee box, the 2nd player in Tiger's group says it is fairly close to where ball hit the water.

This latest incident from the BMW.

Three of the four incidents above resulted in Tiger recording / handing in a score lower than that which was earned and the Tour doling out penalties to him that he otherwise had not recorded on his card. This is a disappointing trend for the World's #1 ranked player.

To be fair, before he took the drop at Dubai he ask his playing partner Martin Kaymer who agreed he was able to drop. The drop at The Players was not an issue in any way except by those who dislike Woods. No one in any position of authority questioned the drop.

[iacas]

To be fair, before he took the drop at Dubai he ask his playing partner Martin Kaymer who agreed he was able to drop. The drop at The Players was not an issue in any way except by those who dislike Woods. No one in any position of authority questioned the drop.

Yup. And at the Masters he admitted he was wrong, and took the penalty, and so now you're down to just two events, only one of which he's disagreed with.

As play has begun again for the final round, that's enough talk of stuff that happened on Friday, particularly as there's a thread specific to this drop.

[MEfree]

So who think's JF will close the deal today?  A win for Stricker would sure make for an impressive season for him- 12 for 12 in cuts made with 10 top 25s, 7 top 10s and 4 top 2s.