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MEfree

Rules Experiment- Testers Wanted

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MEfree    34

In an effort to test some rules that might make the game faster, fairer and easier to understand, I would like The Sand Trap community members to participate in a rules experiment by playing at least one round of golf under the current rules except as noted below.

Summary of Changes

Placements within a foot are used instead of all current drop situations.

All current free relief situations - place your ball within 1 foot of the nearest point of relief, no nearer the hole

Water Hazards, Lateral Water Hazards, Out of Bounds, Lost Balls and Unplayable lies all have the same relief/penalty options:

1.   Re-hit immediately counting the original and re-hit, but no penalty shots- this may be declared on a provisional basis only for balls that are thought to be Out of Bounds, or in a Hazard and may NOT be done provisionally for suspected lost balls or unplayable lies.

2.   Place a ball no nearer the hole with a 1 shot penalty

a.      Within 1 foot of the line from the pin to the ball or

b. Within 1 foot of the line from the ball to the point where the last shot was played from.

Everything else would be played by the current rules of golf.

I believe this rules experiment to be much closer to how the majority of golfers actually play the game when not competing in a tournament.  While average scores may go down slightly under these rules, I feel that they would result in less of a fundamental change in the game than many on this board suspect.

It would be great if both those in favor of rules simplification and those who prefer the current rules participate in the experiment so that we can get feedback from both sides.

If you are interested in participating, please post

1.  The course you intend to play your test round(s)

2.  Your current average score and/or handicap at the course where you intend to play your test round(s)

3.  How much more or less you EXPECT your score to be under the proposed rules than your score would be under the current rules of golf.

4.  How often you expect to encounter a difference in the proposed rules and the current rules during a normal round.

5.  How often you think you would change your strategy on a particular shot do to the different rules.

6.  Whether you expect to enjoy the round more, less or the same (ignoring any effects that the rules you would be playing under are not the official rules of golf.  Aka, if these were the official rules of golf, do you think would enjoy golf more, less or the same as you currently do?)

Here is my proposed rule verbiage.  Suggested modifications to improve clarity are appreciated.

Re-hit Option

1.   Counting the original stroke, the Player may re-hit any shot from the teeing ground or by placing the ball within a foot no nearer the hole when playing outside the teeing ground.

2.   This option may be declared on a provisional basis only when a ball is suspected to be in a hazard or out of bounds.  The provisional ball becomes live if the ball is found in a hazard/OB or lost near/in the hazard/OB and must be picked up if the original ball is found through the green.

3.   This option is unavailable after the player has left the area of the original shot or their caddy/partner has begun searching for the original shot.

Placements- The ball shall be PLACED (instead of dropped) no nearer the hole as follows-

1. Free Relief- within 1 foot of the nearest point of relief.

2. Shot Penalty Relief- within 1 foot of

a. a straight line from the pin to

i. the ball

ii. the point the ball entered a hazard

iii. the point the ball  exited the golf course (went OB )

iv. the farthest point from the hole in the search area where the ball was lost

b. a straight line from where the ball was previously struck to

i. the ball

ii. the point the ball entered a hazard

iii. the point the ball  exited the golf course (went OB )

iv. the farthest point from the hole in the search area where the ball was lost

Placements (formerly drops), with a 1 stroke penalty, are allowed in all situations including unplayable lies, water hazards, out of bounds and lost balls.

1.   The Player has a maximum of 3 minutes to elect this option and play his next shot in cases that do not involve a search for his ball.

2.   When searching for his ball, the player has a maximum of 5 minutes, including search time , to elect this option and play his next shot.

3. The time begins to run when it is the Player`s turn to play after the player has reached or should have reached his ball or the approximate drop area.

4.   Penalty for exceeding time limit- 1 additional stroke.

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I still don't get the lost ball thing. If it's lost, that means I don't know where it is so how do I know where to place it?

Also, you said you can hit a provisional for a ball OB but not a lost ball? That doesn't make sense. what if there is tall grass near the the OB line? I think that it more than likely got caught up in that tall grass but there is a chance that it went OB.. can I take a provisional even though I think it's probably lost?

And dropping a ball is not that hard, I see no real reason to place it.

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meenman    66

I will participate as soon as you show me where I am supposed to drop a *lost ball*

OK even then I wont, I prefer to play golf.

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MEfree    34
I still don't get the lost ball thing. If it's lost, that means I don't know where it is so how do I know where to place it?

Also, you said you can hit a provisional for a ball OB but not a lost ball? That doesn't make sense. what if there is tall grass near the the OB line? I think that it more than likely got caught up in that tall grass but there is a chance that it went OB.. can I take a provisional even though I think it's probably lost?

And dropping a ball is not that hard, I see no real reason to place it.

I thought about allowing a provisional for lost balls also, but felt it would speed up play more not to.  Hit it into tall grass where you are unlikely to find it or want to play it- then either reload right away to save the penalty shot and search time, or take your chances and then likely have to drop into a worse position.

You raise a good point about lost balls close to OB.  One of the more logical things about the rules of golf is that lost balls and OBs are played the same because of the situation you described.  I planned on allowing a provisional anytime there was the possibility that the ball was OB or in a hazard- if the ball is found in the hazard, OB or not found, then the provisional is in play.  If the ball is found in bounds or outside the hazard, the provisional is picked up.

Often times, you don't know exactly where a ball is lost in a hazard either, but you make an educated guess as to where it crossed into the hazard.  Similar when it is lost in an abnormal ground condition.

For lost ball placements, you would use your search area as the basis by picking the farthest point of your search area as your relief point (from which you could go back towards where you originally played from or go back on a line from the pin to that point).  I see guys who don't play provisional balls when they should drop balls all the time- it is really not that complicated.

I will participate as soon as you show me where I am supposed to drop a *lost ball*

OK even then I wont, I prefer to play golf.

I'd love to see someone like you participate in order to give balanced feedback- its just one round and then you would be in a better position to tell me why you hate my proposal.

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iacas    4,175

I played under these rules today. My round took exactly the same amount of time, because I never had any of these situations occur.

And I'm sorry, but "less of a fundamental change" sounds a whole lot like being half pregnant.

P.S. ME, don't take this the wrong way, but if you devoted half the time you devote to this to improving your game, you wouldn't be a 7.4 for very long.

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MEfree    34

I played under these rules today. My round took exactly the same amount of time, because I never had any of these situations occur.

And I'm sorry, but "less of a fundamental change" sounds a whole lot like being half pregnant.

P.S. ME, don't take this the wrong way, but if you devoted half the time you devote to this to improving your game, you wouldn't be a 7.4 for very long.

I am not surprised that you never had any of these situations occur.  That is one of my points- these rules changes will have very little effect on good golfers while making things slightly easier for bad players.

So how did playing under these rules today fundamentally change the game for you?

P.S. I expect to be less at the next revision and would have been lower this revision had my 2 Club Championship rounds that I played in August been turned in by the Committee prior to Sept 1 (along with the one Match play round another Committee chose not to post because it was match play).

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iacas    4,175

I am not surprised that you never had any of these situations occur.  That is one of my points- these rules changes will have very little effect on good golfers while making things slightly easier for bad players.

You seem to completely miss two things:

1. It would make the game "easier" for good players, too, on the occasions in which they lose a ball, or hit it OB, etc.

2. I see no reason whatsoever to make the game easier for anyone*.

So how did playing under these rules today fundamentally change the game for you?

:doh:

I give up.

* I'm all for making the game easier for beginners, kids, etc. Golf in the beginning should be about having fun, learning some basic etiquette, and hitting the ball and watching it fly. Put your ball on tees, throw it out of the trees, etc. It's not GOLF, but it's having fun on the golf course and that is almost always more important in the beginning than playing strictly under the Rules of Golf. When you're skills progress to a point at which you can "play golf" per the Rules, then do so.

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Phil McGleno    282
I know we are not supposed to attack people here so I will just say that this is one of the stupidest dumbest most asinine things i have ever seen you say-And that is saying something. Its like saying that a new rule is if you hit the ball in the water you get to mark down an eagle and a guy never hits the ball in the water and thus the rules and the game werent fundamentally changed because of the new Water Eagle rule. So ****ing stupid (your comment is, Cuz again Im not allowed to say you are).[quote name="MEfree" url="/t/69953/rules-experiment-testers-wanted#post_896775"] So how did playing under these rules today fundamentally change the game for you? [/quote]

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MEfree    34

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

You seem to completely miss two things:

1. It would make the game "easier" for good players, too, on the occasions in which they lose a ball, or hit it OB, etc.

So how much lower do you think your scoring average would be under these rules as opposed to the current rules?

BTW, I said "very little effect" not "no effect" on good golfers...I realize it would make things less penal for them also but don't think it would change the OWGR much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

You seem to completely miss two things:

2. I see no reason whatsoever to make the game easier for anyone*.

* I'm all for making the game easier for beginners, kids, etc. Golf in the beginning should be about having fun, learning some basic etiquette, and hitting the ball and watching it fly. Put your ball on tees, throw it out of the trees, etc. It's not GOLF, but it's having fun on the golf course and that is almost always more important in the beginning than playing strictly under the Rules of Golf. When you're skills progress to a point at which you can "play golf" per the Rules, then do so.

#2 is where we disagree.

At what point do you consider someone good enough so that they can "play golf" per the Rules?

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MEfree    34

What do you call this game you would like us to test out since it's not really golf?

Whatever you want so long as you post your expectations here and give it a try for at least 1 round.

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Rulesman    166

What do you call this game you would like us to test out since it's not really golf?

Flog has been used before. So perhaps glof or fogl.

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iacas    4,175

You guys can't read internet sarcasm can you.

That's a cop-out.

So how much lower do you think your scoring average would be under these rules as opposed to the current rules?

My answer is "too much." And I don't care if the OWGR would stay exactly the same (as it probably would): "OWGR wouldn't change" is not a reason to support changing the rules like this.

#2 is where we disagree.

Ya think?

And "When they are proficient enough that they want to play golf."

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turtleback    484
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post

In an effort to test some rules that might make the game faster, fairer and easier to understand, I would like The Sand Trap community members to participate in a rules experiment by playing at least one round of golf under the current rules except as noted below.

No.

Quote:

I'd love to see someone like you participate in order to give balanced feedback- its just one round and then you would be in a better position to tell me why you hate my proposal.

I'm pretty sure meenman can already tell you why he hates your proposal.  My guess would be because he likes to play actual golf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post

You guys can't read internet sarcasm can you.

Usually we can, but when someone says as many strange things as you do it is sometime hard to tell, since sometimes I think it is sarcasm but you are being serious.

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Lihu    542
Being the high handicapper I am, I track drives (like what if I were allowed to rehit any tee shot), OB etc. Looking at my last few cards, I might improve 10, so instead of 93 I might shoot 83? Personally, I enjoy trying to extracate myself from these situations. That's the fun part of golf. For instance, I shanked a drive, and was left with 230 to the green. I tried to see if I could use my 3i to get there. I got close, and I consider that my most enjoyable shot of the round. I also like hitting between trees, not always successful, but really satisfying when I do. Replay would have cost me an extra stroke, and the fun. I like the current rules because it puts golfers in more fun situations.

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