Everyone is a Feel Player

[Hammer 4]

I dunno, I've seen some fugly swings from all races of folks. It would be pretty hard to single out 1 or even 2 races that have "robotic" swings ...imho of course..

[jamo]

See post 14. The mechanical swing is only the beginning. . .

Also: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/67401/the-virtue-of-being-a-stupid-monkey-and-how-it-can-help-your-golf-game/0_30]The Virtues of Being a Stupid Monkey[/URL].

[Kelzzy]

So, I played a round with another Asian golfer with the worst possible form and swing. He stepped backwards after impact. His address was this weird sideways setup. I figured this was a beginner who had no idea how to play. I was totally wrong. He made almost every hole in regulation or close to it. He parred most of the holes. The other guy I partnered with also had a funny swing, but somehow he also parred many of the holes. The only explanation for their ability to be low single digit (possibly both were scratch) players is by feel.

I agree that many kids have the same swing, but race is irrelevant. I read another post where someone complained that all the young golfers have the same swing. In fact, the kids I saw at an SCGA qualifier in August all had almost the same swing, all of them were scratch.

So, these kids all have a "mechanical" swing, but I'm positive they use feel to hit the exact point on the ball. The mechanics only gets you to the point where there is no resistance to hitting your target.

Please don't take me the wrong: I'm not saying all Asians have mechanical swings. I'm not saying Asians are the only ones with mechanical swings. But from the tournaments I've played, they seem to be the ones with the mechanical swings.. I've seen white kids and black kids. Race doesn't play a factor, I'm just saying.

[billchao]

they have no feel in what they are doing

And you can tell this by looking at them?

[Kelzzy]

And you can tell this by looking at them?

I like how you quote what I wrote before explaining I asked them and they said they didn't know why, just do it because their coach told them to.

[Golfingdad]

I like how you quote what I wrote before explaining I asked them and they said they didn't know why, just do it because their coach told them to.

Lol ... That just sounds like they're stupid monkeys ... With really no bearing on feel. For example: I'm currently working on straightening my legs at impact. But ask me why and the answer you're going to get is "cuz my coach told me to." I don't have quite enough knowledge of swing mechanics to answer that knowledgeably. I could possibly guess, but I don't care to. It just doesn't matter, and further, it has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not I'm a "feel" player. (I am ... We all are)

[Kelzzy]

Lol ... That just sounds like they're stupid monkeys ... With really no bearing on feel.

For example: I'm currently working on straightening my legs at impact. But ask me why and the answer you're going to get is "cuz my coach told me to." I don't have quite enough knowledge of swing mechanics to answer that knowledgeably. I could possibly guess, but I don't care to. It just doesn't matter, and further, it has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not I'm a "feel" player. (I am ... We all are)

I never will do something unless i know why. Granted, if my coach tells me to do something I do it, but once I do it I ask "Why?" (respectively of course) if I don't understand at first. I think anybody who doesn't know why they're doing something to their swing isn't anything close to a feel player, they're a be-told-what-to-do player.

[Golfingdad]

I never will do something unless i know why. Granted, if my coach tells me to do something I do it, but once I do it I ask "Why?" (respectively of course) if I don't understand at first. I think anybody who doesn't know why they're doing something to their swing isn't anything close to a feel player, they're a be-told-what-to-do player.

Why does the "why" have any bearing on feel? If anything that is really backwards. Go read the examples in the OP about nick Faldo and Bubba Watson

[Kelzzy]

Why does the "why" have any bearing on feel? If anything that is really backwards. Go read the examples in the OP about nick Faldo and Bubba Watson

I give up with you guys

[Golfingdad]

I give up with you guys

Dude, that's my line. ;)

[Kelzzy]

Dude, that's my line. ;)

Hahaha, Merry Christmas bud :)

[Golfingdad]

Hahaha, Merry Christmas bud :)

Thanks! You too!

[mvmac]

No, not everyone is a feel player. No racism intended, but Asian based players especially are mechanical, robotic players. Honestly, they don't think what they're doing, they just do it. I played with a lot of Asian players and most of them are like this. There swings are 100 percent mechanical and robotic. They have no signature thing about there swing.. no hip push or leg movement. Good or bad, they have no feel in what they are doing. Their coach modeled them like clay, and that's what they do. If they hit a bad shot, they think it's because a swing flaw. Which it is, they don't "feel" it when they do it.

Not all Asians do this, obviously, but a lot of the one's I played with do. Is this a good or bad way to be? I think it's a bad way, because golf is not a mechanical sport.. Ben Hogan said it best, "A feel player is dangerous".

Feels produce mechanics in ALL players.  100% mechanical would mean they press a button on their club and it swings itself.  If their swing coach tells them that their left arm should be in a certain position they have to come up with a FEEL to produce the picture.

I give up with you guys

That's what happens when you skim through the OP.

[Kelzzy]

Feels produce mechanics in ALL players.  100% mechanical would mean they press a button on their club and it swings itself.  If their swing coach tells them that their left arm should be in a certain position they have to come up with a FEEL to produce the picture.

That's what happens when you skim through the OP.

So if a robot was programmed to pick up a bag of groceries, it would have a feel or is it simply programmed so much that it knows what to do because it was programmed.

Does a dog sit because it has the feeling, or because it was taught to sit? Did the dog sit wrong until it "felt" the correct way, or was it taught the correct way?

[billchao]

I like how you quote what I wrote before explaining I asked them and they said they didn't know why, just do it because their coach told them to.

Like @Golfingdad said, your reasoning doesn't have any bearing on what somebody "feels." I can watch you break your arm and I couldn't tell anybody how YOU feel. I can probably assume it hurts like hell, but assuming and knowing are two different things.

I think anybody who doesn't know why they're doing something to their swing isn't anything close to a feel player, they're a be-told-what-to-do player.

That wouldn't make them a mechanical player, that just makes them ignorant and there's really nothing wrong with that. Just because someone is told what to do in their swing doesn't mean they're not using a feel to replicate it.

I was going to add more to the post, but there's nothing I can contribute that hasn't already been stated.

[Abu3baid]

This is very interesting.. I remember when I was getting my lesson and the coach said something like feel like your shoulder is dipping or something, and then I did it and he is like no no.. with you, don't feel that.. Feel like your doing X instead.. then when I did that I went back to hitting the ball nice..

[iacas]

I've had players who need to perform the same action - let's say, the way their hips go during the backswing - feel two very different things to be successful.

And the inverse of that has also been true - I've had a player feel he decreases flex in his trail knee to keep his hips from sliding forward during the backswing, and another player feel he decreases the flex in his trail knee to keep his hips from sliding backwards during the backswing.

Feels vary, but everyone is a feel player.

@Kelzzy has a few days to think about his recent behavior, so we'll have a temporary reprieve at least.

[David in FL]

I've had players who need to perform the same action - let's say, the way their hips go during the backswing - feel two very different things to be successful.

And the inverse of that has also been true - I've had a player feel he decreases flex in his trail knee to keep his hips from sliding forward during the backswing, and another player feel he decreases the flex in his trail knee to keep his hips from sliding backwards during the backswing.

Feels vary, but everyone is a feel player.

So, as an instructor, how do you determine what feel you should be encouraging in each individual?  Or is it more......."that's the way the swing should look, tell me what you're feeling and we'll work to repeat that feel."?