Gravel in sand traps

[clubcleaner]

Here's a quick rule question. The course I'm a member of has a good number of sand traps, but many of them are not made of quality sand. In some there is gravel coming through, and its bad enough to the point that I've taken chunks out of a new sand wedge due to hitting rocks with some of the more stronger hits. I've talked to other golfers who have had the same problem here.

My question is, what's the rule/etiquette for not wanting to play a ball in a poorly-kept bunker? I know some guys will actually take the ball out to play it, as they don't want to hurt their clubs, but once we're in tournament play we can't do that. Beyond talking to the grounds manager, what options do we have while playing??

[MSchott]

The Rules of Golf says:

"If the ball lies in a hazard , the player must not touch or move any loose impediment lying in or touching the same hazard – see Rule 13-4c ."

Here is rule 13-4:

13-4 . Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions

Except as provided in the Rules , before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard ) or that, having been lifted from a hazard , may be dropped or placed in the hazard , the player must not:

a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard ;

b. Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water hazard with his hand or a club; or

c. Touch or move a loose impediment lying in or touching the hazard .

Maybe your club can institute a local rule about removing the pebbles. Not sure if this is OK to do.

[rehmwa]

absolutely talking to the grounds crew and club management - with all your other member friends

no way am I damaging my clubs for any reason - I'll not count the round as official, or just walk away...

no tournaments at that club without serious prepping beforehand by the crew - if they don't, leave.  not worth it.

else the tournament committee needs to state ahead of time that the traps at your club are to be treated under the rules as grounds under repair......

[saevel25]

I hate when golf courses go cheap on the bunkers.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clubcleaner

Here's a quick rule question. The course I'm a member of has a good number of sand traps, but many of them are not made of quality sand. In some there is gravel coming through, and its bad enough to the point that I've taken chunks out of a new sand wedge due to hitting rocks with some of the more stronger hits. I've talked to other golfers who have had the same problem here.

My question is, what's the rule/etiquette for not wanting to play a ball in a poorly-kept bunker? I know some guys will actually take the ball out to play it, as they don't want to hurt their clubs, but once we're in tournament play we can't do that. Beyond talking to the grounds manager, what options do we have while playing??

There is no rule which allows the sort of relief you are seeking.  There is a local rule which can be invoked for stones in bunkers, but that just allows the player to move them as movable obstructions for safety reasons (so that you don't risk hitting other players with flying rocks).  There is nothing which allows the player to take relief outside of a bunker without a severe penalty (Rule 28 - Ball Unplayable:  To take relief outside of the bunker requires that you accept the stroke and distance penalty).  If the local rule would be applicable in your situation, I'd talk to the course management to see if that rule can be put into place.  This is the modification to Rule 24-1 which is authorized:

Quote:

b. Stones in Bunkers

Allowing the removal of stones in bunkers by declaring them to be movable obstructions (Rule 24-1 ).

This is the recommended wording:

Quote:

5. Stones In Bunkers

Stones are, by definition, loose impediments and, when a player’s ball is in a hazard , a stone lying in or touching the hazard may not be touched or moved (Rule 13-4 ). However, stones in bunkers may represent a danger to players (a player could be injured by a stone struck by the player’s club in an attempt to play the ball) and they may interfere with the proper playing of the game.

When permission to lift a stone in a bunker is warranted, the following Local Rule is recommended:

“Stones in bunkers are movable obstructions (Rule 24-1 applies).”

If the course won't take any action, and as long as you aren't playing in any competition, I'd say that you and your group can invoke the local rule on your own.  It's not strictly Kosher, but sometimes you just have to do what you have to do.

[David in FL]

There is no rule which allows the sort of relief you are seeking.  There is a local rule which can be invoked for stones in bunkers, but that just allows the player to move them as movable obstructions for safety reasons (so that you don't risk hitting other players with flying rocks).  There is nothing which allows the player to take relief outside of a bunker without a severe penalty (Rule 28 - Ball Unplayable:  To take relief outside of the bunker requires that you accept the stroke and distance penalty).  If the local rule would be applicable in your situation, I'd talk to the course management to see if that rule can be put into place.  This is the modification to Rule 24-1 which is authorized:

This is the recommended wording:

“Stones in bunkers are movable obstructions (Rule 24-1 applies).”

If the course won't take any action, and as long as you aren't playing in any competition, I'd say that you and your group can invoke the local rule on your own.  It's not strictly Kosher, but sometimes you just have to do what you have to do.

I agree.

Please be careful though......that type of thing can get out of hand in a hurry and pretty soon someone is taking free relief from tree roots and a whole host of other situations that would be inappropriate just because you don't care for the circumstances.

[RayG]

Take the unplayable lie penalty and drop outside the bunker is another way to deal with it.

[Ernest Jones]

Take the unplayable lie penalty and drop outside the bunker is another way to deal with it.

I believe your only option for that is stroke and distance otherwise you have to drop within the hazard no closer to the hole.

[Fourputt]

Take the unplayable lie penalty and drop outside the bunker is another way to deal with it.

Ernest has it right, just as I posted above if you had read it.  The only option under Rule 28 is stroke and distance.

[Jeremie Boop]

Ernest has it right, just as I posted above if you had read it.  The only option under Rule 28 is stroke and distance.

This is one of those unfortunate circumstances found when playing "economy" rounds. I realize that I hit it in the bunker and deserve the "penalty" of a sand shot, however it is annoying to have to take an even steeper penalty of stroke and distance or risk damage to a club. One of the courses I like to play because the greens/fairways/tees are in good shape has horrible sand traps. It's obvious they are planning on redoing them in the off season, as there are mounds of sand in the parking lot, but right now the sand traps have hardly any sand in them, are rock hard, and are riddled with stones. I've tried playing out of them a few times and it's near impossible to do so. The last time I did I could literally hear a small rock shoot off my club face. Luckily it didn't hit the person I was playing the round with at the time.

[Dave2512]

The sand in the lot is probably for dressing greens and tee boxes for fall aeration. I haven't seen many courses make improvements to traps. I hate the sand at most of the courses I play. Hit more than one bunker in a day and you may as well walk off the course. Damaged clubs, damaged score, damaged confidence and the bad attitude that comes with it. I can live with a beat wedge, they get beat anyway. Putting a gouge in the face of a iron hitting out of a fairway bunker not so much. The sand here is not unlike the ready mix concrete sold in bags. Hard as a rock after rain and full of pebbles. I chip out sideway or backwards and pitch over the traps and take my lump and hope I don't find another one. I bought new 4-6i just a month or so ago and they look like someone has been hitting them off the cart path.

[Fourputt]

The sand in the lot is probably for dressing greens and tee boxes for fall aeration. I haven't seen many courses make improvements to traps. I hate the sand at most of the courses I play. Hit more than one bunker in a day and you may as well walk off the course. Damaged clubs, damaged score, damaged confidence and the bad attitude that comes with it. I can live with a beat wedge, they get beat anyway. Putting a gouge in the face of a iron hitting out of a fairway bunker not so much. The sand here is not unlike the ready mix concrete sold in bags. Hard as a rock after rain and full of pebbles. I chip out sideway or backwards and pitch over the traps and take my lump and hope I don't find another one. I bought new 4-6i just a month or so ago and they look like someone has been hitting them off the cart path.

You need to find better courses to play.  The ones I play don't have such issues.  Foothills, Fox Hollow, The Meadows have rather coarse sand, but it's still sand.  Fossil Trace has the opposite problem - the sand is so deep and fluffy that you have to play a completely different type of shot.

[Dave2512]

You need to find better courses to play.  The ones I play don't have such issues.  Foothills, Fox Hollow, The Meadows have rather coarse sand, but it's still sand.  Fossil Trace has the opposite problem - the sand is so deep and fluffy that you have to play a completely different type of shot.

Not crazy about Fossil Trace, the monoliths in the fairway are cheesy. I played the other two a lot back in the 90's and 00's when I lived in Lakewood. Unfortunately I am stuck due to my work schedule and needing something close. More often than not I am out for a quick 9 before and after work. I suppose I could limit golf to weekends and be choosy or just play Riverdale and Ranch CC. My home course was once private so the bad sand is mind boggling. Though in fairness much of it due to the rains. Even before the floods it rained more than usual through Aug-Sep. The bunkers are deep and they should have designed them different. The sand runs down the face with wind and water. Constantly raking it back up only dredges up dirt and whatever.

[saevel25]

I hate the fluffy crap

I also hate that cheap sand that most cheap golf courses use. Its horrible. The course I play on decides not to make each bunker consistent. So one bunker will have 6 inches of crappy sand and the other wont have any. If you ever try to hit a bunker shot out of a bunker with 6 inches of crappy sand, its nearly impossible. You have to be so precise and shallow with the club or your going to skull it or bury the club head into the sand and the ball goes about 2 feet. Honestly I rather hit out of hunkers with hardpan sand than bunkers with tons of sand. At least i know how the club will reach out of the hardpan, and I can hit shots that spin.

[Jeremie Boop]

I hate the fluffy crap

I also hate that cheap sand that most cheap golf courses use. Its horrible. The course I play on decides not to make each bunker consistent. So one bunker will have 6 inches of crappy sand and the other wont have any. If you ever try to hit a bunker shot out of a bunker with 6 inches of crappy sand, its nearly impossible. You have to be so precise and shallow with the club or your going to skull it or bury the club head into the sand and the ball goes about 2 feet. Honestly I rather hit out of hunkers with hardpan sand than bunkers with tons of sand. At least i know how the club will reach out of the hardpan, and I can hit shots that spin.

Hardpan would be playable/acceptable, but playing in sand with rocks in it isn't.

[Always an 80]

I agree. Please be careful though......that type of thing can get out of hand in a hurry and pretty soon someone is taking free relief from tree roots and a whole host of other situations that would be inappropriate just because you don't care for the circumstances.

Very good observation!! Give some an inch and they will take a mile.

[phan52]

We are redoing all of our bunkers, but it is a three year, off-season project so we are kind of stuck in the middle. with some bunkers still hardpan and some fluffy that haven't settled yet. Pain in the ass. I have practiced and figured out the new bunkers but I can't hit out of the old ones now. Thankfully it will all be done this offseason.

We have been using some new lining material for the base of the new bunkers, but I noticed that another local club has some kind of gravel material for the base of their new bunkers. Kind of odd, IMO, but they tell me it is state-of-the-art.

[Always an 80]

We are redoing all of our bunkers, but it is a three year, off-season project so we are kind of stuck in the middle. with some bunkers still hardpan and some fluffy that haven't settled yet. Pain in the ass. I have practiced and figured out the new bunkers but I can't hit out of the old ones now. Thankfully it will all be done this offseason. We have been using some new lining material for the base of the new bunkers, but I noticed that another local club has some kind of gravel material for the base of their new bunkers. Kind of odd, IMO, but they tell me it is state-of-the-art.

Just as long as that stuff stays on the bottom. If it works up you will have to seriously strike the ball harder. I don't know if I like that idea. Changing materials from course to course sounds iffy. Hey then again I'm thinking that maybe that gravel might propel the ball!! What you guys think??